How do we make critical thinkers, how do we get all to get out of their own ways and say, Yes, we have X equals Y, but sometimes it’s Z and sometimes it’s five and… Yeah, and it has a son.
Welcome back to prospects for each to talk about TIP Brixton methods for growing an amazing small business, right of…
I’m your host, Dr. Fonda Robertson on this podcast, you can expect segments on communication sales prospects include the thank you to everyone for my 100 episodes in 100 days. Goal going about 20-20.
I enjoy the show at… Today we have on the podcast a mate, Dean, Dr. Mathew demand, and He is a chiropractor, and just to give everyone a little bit of background, we met at New York chiropractic, somewhere between 20… It is in 2017, use a clinical advisor to me. Super great guy. Thank you so much for coming on the show. Really appreciate you. Take it some time on your day-to-day.
Absolutely, I’d… Do we give back to a former student… Absolutely. So maybe give the listeners a little bit of background on your chiropractic experience, where did you come from, how did you get into chiropractic, and then what are you doing in the clinic, air clinical educator space now?
So my story, I think, is kind of fun and unique, and that I’m actually a third generation chiropractor, my grandfather, I was a chiropractor, my uncle or chiropractors, and I have a cousin who’s a chiropractor as well, while… So that’s certainly something that I was exposed to my whole life, and after I went through the normal undergraduate process and we got some degrees… I always knew I wanted to work in the health space, but I wasn’t sure exactly in what capacity. So I worked in ES for the better part of a decade, and it was in that… It was actually in that job where the story I say is, I got tired of seeing people on their way out… Yeah, yeah, I bet.
So after seeing that year after year, I went, Let me start looking into other fields, I really don’t think medicine is a good fit for me, I don’t wanna work with people who are really just hanging on to life. I really wanted to improve the quality of their life. Right, so having the family upbringing that I did… Chisel like a natural choice. So when I applied in chiropractic school, I went to a few and got accepted to a couple of them, and I ultimately ended up landing at NCC because part of that interview process, what I found in myself was that when they asked why I wanted to be a chiropractor, it kind of… It really dawned on me that I don’t wanna be a chiropractor, I wanna teach chiropractors, so at a… So I had this little bit of a realization moment as I was really getting into it, that not only was I drawn to healthcare, but I was really drawn to the education of health practitioners, and over the next four years, not only that, I focus my efforts on becoming a chiropractor, but I also focus my efforts on really becoming an educator… Right, ready I… That was a different approach for a lot of people probably go to chiropractic school thinking that they’re gonna be a practicing chiropractor, and they’re going down that pathway and they’re really focusing clinical and not so much on how to teach other people. So with you going through the program with that different kind of pivot mindset, what do you think was different for you, did you approach classes differently, did you do things differently than… I know you’re different in general, the way you do things, which is great, but in that particular instance, how did you treat school differently, do you think… What I indicated, I think that’s a great… On the mindset of the person who wants to help people is great, ’cause you wanna help people, but my mindset was, I wanna help people, help people, so it was almost like a second order kind of thing, and I thought, I’m not gonna be able to do this unless I really have ownership of everything that I’m trying to learn here, it… So I think it really wasn’t a motivating tool that let me go to every single one of my classes, every one of my labs, it led me to write for the school paper, get involved in research projects and just really grab the reins and move hard into everything that, that the program had to offer, and given that you were… You went into the program as a student and then you are an educator there, what did you see differently in that… I know it may be a shorter period of time, but what did you see differently in chiropractic transitioning very quickly there, your student, you got to sit and have other people…
I kinda give you that knowledge, give you that expertise and then very quickly you flipped it and said, Okay, well, now I’m the person who’s gonna disseminate that knowledge. How did you find that transition? Was it easy? Was it hard? Was it fast? Was it long? How did it kinda change or… How did it change over time?
Well, I think to start, because of the mentality going into the program, that was my end goal, one of the things that I did over four years was I made it a point to be a tutor, and pretty much every course, after I finished any… In every course, I went back and offered tutoring services in those classes, and after four years, I kind of joked with everybody that I had tuned every class possible by the time I was done.
You’re right. Okay, so when… So when I graduated, the opportunity to teach wasn’t immediate, I actually went and practiced as an independent contractor first for my own life to graduate from her program, and just a cosmic alignment manner opportunity to come back to mcvey quickly and work as a graduate associate, which was… Honestly, I think NCC did a really nice job of bringing in a new graduate and pairing them in courses and with instructors as a graduate assist to really help facilitate and foster that growth as an educator.
Right, right. And so what do you think about… There are some instructors out there or some educators that have been doing it for 30 years, I… And that could be a chiropractic or any profession. Doesn’t really matter. They’ve been teaching for 30 years. What do you think the difference is? So you got experience and then you have the kinda New Age up and coming kind of mindset, how do you see those two kind of crossing with each other when you have 50 staff members or 100 staff members working together. Do you see that as valuable? invaluable. What your stand on that?
So I would actually say there’s… As much as I’d want there to be a difference. What I find is that there actually isn’t a difference, the people who come in, whether it’s their first year or they’re 30th year teaching, it’s really about what their purpose is, what’s driving them… And I’ve seen first year instructors who are just not motivated to be good teachers, are… There’s that adage of those who can can and those who can’t teach.
And you ask any educator about that adage, we’re very quick to say, No, that’s not true, right?
But there’s a reason that exists, and it’s because you get those people from industry who come to teach because they get burned out or can’t make it, or whatever, the reason in the… They’re not very good teachers, so the motivation is very different, and then you see those similar patterns in the 30-year instructor who has just checked out on… You know that they do their one He that check, and it’s not… You wanna roll back just a little bit, so you’re talking about the age of the new instructor and the old instructor, how does that change though, so you said that you don’t think there’s a real big difference between the two of them because it’s either you like teaching you’re good at it or you’re not.
Right, that’s really what it is. Not about how long you’ve been doing. It is kind of what I’m here, right? So the two examples are, you see those people who are fresh from industry, fresh from practice, who come in because they’re burned out, tired or otherwise, and their heart’s not in it, so they’re not very good instructors, and then you also see those 30-year doctors who are educators who are just largely checked out, and I kind of done with it, fortunately, he… On the other end of the spectrum, you get those first years, those first year educators who are just, they’re hungry, they wanna make that big impact, they’re really motivated to do well, they learn as much as they can in pedagogy and teaching, and they really look at classroom design and develop and develop new concepts, but fortunately, that’s also not lost on some of the 30-year educators. Who have that same passion, right? Right, right. And still have that, they can still be experienced and passion, or they’re really kind of mutually exclusive items, the length of time teaching and the quality of your skill-Sater quality of teaching, your passion, really independent and items. Now, I would say I definitely agree with you on that.
Now, what do you think about the structure of education though, so one of the things I noticed going through, not necessarily just CCS program, but just school in general, is there’s very much… I say X and you say y type approach. Right, and then everybody goes through these programs… I went to school in Canada, so I got to have the Canadian education system and the US education system. And there are tons of differences, but one thing that’s the exact same as I say as you say, Why… Across the board right now, my problem with that is that I don’t think that that’s very realistic or practical long-term, ’cause if X doesn’t exist, you can’t give any answer, you don’t have anything to match it to, so how do you think… In your experience of education and your experience of how you teach people, how do you get around that x and y one-to-one relationship?
I mean, you have a little bit of personal insight to that comment because having worked with me, you know how I try to break that down.
Right, right, right, right. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. But for the people who maybe haven’t seen the way you interact with people, what would you say your focus is? How do you break that apart for people in that one-to-one relationship?
Well, so the first thing I would say is, you really just have to respect it as a process, a lot of education requires that you have certain understandings and that you can pass certain metrics to guarantee that you are who you say you are and you’ve received the education that you’ve received, cason point, to become any licensed healthcare provider, you have to pass a board exam, and that’s just a minimum competency standard that every healthcare provider has to pass, and if you don’t know for this X, there is that why… You don’t get to be licensed… Right, right, right.
So there’s a little bit of teaching to the test or getting you through a board process that needs to be acknowledged, but once you landed and generated kind of foundational skill set, the next step is really that is at the college level in higher education, we really wanna focus on… And that’s how do we make critical thinkers, how do we get rule to get out of their own ways and say, Yes, we have X equals Y, but sometimes it’s Z and sometimes it’s five, and yeah, it is a set for whatever that answer happens to be. So one of the things I’ll do in my classes is I’m very transparent, and I say, Look, gang. The first thing we’re gonna do is, you need to know that X equals Y, but when we’re done with that, I’m going to challenge you every step of the way… Right.
And do you think that… I was thinking about this before we did this session, I was writing down some notes about things to ask you or comments, things I remember from our previous kind of engagements, and you’re a big y guy, so I can speak to these specific scenarios of… We do research papers or we do some study that we’re looking at, or we’re doing some clinical protocol or whatever it is, and then we get to the end of it, and then you throw the why… It’s like, Well, why did we do that? We… We know how we did it and we know what we did, but why did we do it? And I think that throws a lot of people for… They don’t really know why they do it. They just kinda go, Well, I was taught that way. Or someone told me to do that. So how do you think that students, or not even just chiropractic students across the board, how can they take that different mindset and be asking themselves Why all the time, ’cause that’s not built in to people for some reunion… Yeah, so maybe try to address it in a couple of different parts of asking yourself Why is important because it helps give you that direction, and more often than not, that’s that critical question that’s missing from so much of our intense is, why do we do things we don’t wanna go from our day-to-day and just do it because it’s what we did last time, for what worked last time. And when that works, that’s nice. But in general, we’re not… We’re not on a factory line where everything has to be the same print, and when you ask somebody in that position, why are you doing this? The answer is, because I need to do it the exact same so that the end result is the city, same A, but the why there is… It needs to be the same, right?
Well, what if we frame it another way, what if we frame it and say, Do you think that the asking the question Why can be taught… Can you teach people to ask that or are they either just born with it, do some people like you and I just say, we wanna know why for everything that why… Why, you see these kids, you give them a rule and then they go, Why, you see a five-year-old kid running around, why can’t I do this? Why can they ask that inherently, but then as you go through a higher education, even just standard education, people stop asking why, they just go, Yes, yes. Okay, perfect, I’ll write that down. Next time, yes.
But the why comes back with certain people like you and I, how do we get that to other people so that we don’t have just yes. People all the time, or just IDC and by, how do we get that?
Yeah, no, that’s a great way to start that conversation in that everybody is born with the natural curiosity about the world, we look at things for the first time, and we wanna know more, we naturally investigate our surroundings, and to some extent, the way that the education system is developed unfortunately really kinda works that out of me.
It takes that question away and says, Well, regards of what you think, here’s what you need to know, because we say so, K through 12 in the States, we teach you… You have to learn these things, you have to meet these standards. And then now we know that you know enough information to move forward, right, but once you get past that point, who are the interesting people in the world, who are the ones that are changing the landscape of all of the different varied fields? It’s the ones that don’t settle for the education that’s put right in front of them, but rather… Well, this doesn’t make sense. Why am I learning it this way?
And I… It’s a question that as we’re looking to develop critical thinkers, we absolutely need to make sure we’re instilling a sense of curiosity in the person, so I… So I think about when it comes to teaching somebody how to address the Y in their life, it’s really about showing them how to remain curious, how to have a growth mindset, how to be more deliberate in what they’re doing, so that… They’re thinking about the broader picture and not doing it just because… Right, right. And do you think that now that you’ve been through multiple high level education institutions, both as a student and as an educated yourself, do you think that the school system is developing people to not ask why for the most part, do you think that there’s this compliance and just saying, do this all the time to get the same result because there’s an exam, because there’s a test, because we want you to answer it this way, do you think the systems just design that way and that’s what the way it’s gonna be successful, or do you think there’s room for improvement on… Not because I think some people would say that. That’s just the way it is, not the way it should be is. If I say the answer is A, the answer A… And that’s just the way it is.
But what is that thing?
So I think primary school does that a little bit, but almost out of necessity, you can’t let a 12-year-old be as so mindful when it comes to things like mathematics, charter, you need to have foundational knowledge… Absolutely certain subjects, so that once you have a foundation from which to move from, now you can start to see what those barriers are and expand and we forward
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