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So we were able to buy essentially four rentals at one time doing that… Welcome back to the prospect a show, or each week we talk about tips, Rican methods, we’re growing an amazing small business fight off.

I’m your host, Doctor, On a Robertson on this podcast, you can expect segments on communication, sales prospecting in close, thank you to everyone who has supported my 100 episodes in 100 days goals going to 20-20.

I enjoy the show. I appreciate you guys spend the time to… Tell me a little bit about what you do. I know Keith was… Tell me a little bit more about what you guys do together, but maybe it would be kinda cool to hear from the horses mouth, what it is you guys are doing it, at least on the rental side, and that way I can have a better understanding.

Yeah, definitely, I remember talking to Keith a little bit about it the other weekend, Pittsburgh, and he seemed intrigued, he’s like, Alright, you guys seemed to have the good idea of the whole rental income pay for itself kind of thing. It’s something we really just got into last year. I would like to say I can speak to it a little bit easier, but Travis knows a lot more about it than I do. He kind of tailed me into it, so probably best if he gives you a broader overview of it… Yeah, let’s hear it.

Yeah, so I was lucky and my parents had rented the whole time I was growing up, so just grew up with the MOE in the grass and fix a little stuff here and there, and Abby family still has run house to this day as well. So it was, it was nice that we both had some experience with it, and then something I’ve always been interested in, but I traveled around a lot for work up until a year and a half ago or so, and I would literally move every free to six months so I just didn’t wanna be a long distance landlord and never quite worked out, but then decided to move back home, and I parked up with my dad in his insurance office about a year and a half ago or so now, and I just been less through a bunch of bigger pockets and diving into a bunch of financial independent stuff and everything I was reading in here and was like, If you can do a good house hack, that’s the number one thing to get you on the right path.

So that was my main goal when I got back home, was just to find a duplex triplex or complex to move into one of the units and then run out the rest and how… Sayre not familiar with the other people, it’s essentially just having your renters pay all your expenses, and you essentially live for free, so on a for PLEX, that typically typically works the best, but even on a duplex that I originally bought, me living in half and ran out the other half covered pretty much all of my expenses and mainly talking about the mortgage, taxes and insurance, and instead of that costing me like 700 to a 1000 a month, it was like probably 100 or 200 a month that I had to come up with. And then I was only looking to buy duplex, and then I’m from a town of 3000 people, there not that many options and wanted something to model the… And a family friend of my dad had three duplexes that he wanted to sell, and it was kind of an all-or-nothing type deal, and I kept telling my only one-on-one and he wouldn’t do it, and he just kept dropping the price and dropping the price and I eventually got to a point where I really wanted him and found a small town bank around here that did some fancy finance work that probably got us into the crash in 2008, but somehow there they’ll doing it now, and let me put down essentially… No money down loan on three duplexes all at once.

Well, yeah, knock on wood, it’s worked out right so far, inherited six enters at the time, one of them left a month or two after I bought them, and then I moved into that unit and still in there now, and then back in September, Abby and I found a four-unit property over in St. Louis, and we really like the city, and right now in my place about power outside the city.

Okay, so she’s lived in the city for 80 or 10 years. And we just really like being in the city, but I didn’t wanna drive an hour each way to work, so we wanted to try to find something that fit fit all of that, and we found a for plex in Solar, which is the primary of St. Louis, we’re have lived for eight or 10 years now, and just a great property, two of the units are two-bedroom one-bath, and the other two units are one bedroom one bath, and same deal, we took one of the two-bedroom one-bath units and the other three units there more than cover the mortgage taxes and insurance, even with us not putting it down towards it, so we kinda have our city apartment in our country place is how we look at it, and neither one of them are really costing this any money.

Wow. It actually started… I started Airbnb in my place in my… Okay, not thinking much would really come of it, but we do have a really big… Like in my town that does get some tourist traffic in that, and it ended up renting out like every weekend on the… So that was some nice extra income that we weren’t expecting, and we’re gonna try to do the same thing in St. Louis and just the weekends that were in St. Louis will run out the place in my home town, the weekends were in my home town will run out St. Louis and vice versa. So we’re just really trying to maximize the housing game and make it be an asset instead of a liability for us.

Yeah, it sounds like you guys have really figured that out, so maybe let’s talk about the OPM that you guys did, you got 0 zero down financing on a triplex, is that what you said? You got there.

So it’s actually three separate and duplexes.

Three duplexes, okay. And one market or multiple mortgages, all one mortgage, all from a small bank here in my hometown, and basically my dad had to co-sinistr and put up a little collateral, but didn’t have to put any money down on it and just kind of one of those down home deals, I guess the best way. It’s good growing up playing basketball with the banker son, in other words… Yeah, no, well, that’s the thing that the small banks seemed to do really well, because if you go to a large institution like Chase or one of those big banks out there, what they’re gonna do is they’re gonna the look at the collateral satin of it, plus the risk table and pretty much just decide off of that, right, they’re not gonna look at the people and the relationship and the utility of the product, they’re just looking at all of this person has no net worth and they wanna put no money down, and the… You look at it in a bad way. So I think the way you guys did… It definitely makes sense now. What’s an average mortgage 30 years? Is that way you guys took out on it, like are you building equity in the home right now, or are you just trying to cash flow, it still were… So I originally locked in alone for 10 years… Okay, with stressed out, 30-year amortization, but fixed rate for 10 years, and got it four and a half with no money down with that, it’s pretty happy with.

That’s amazing.

And then that’s the one… So the three duplexes in my hometown, we’re trying to just throw as much money at those as we can right now and get those paid off here within the next five years.

Okay, and that would give us enough money, probably 2 to 3 000 a month where just kind of like our bread, easy money, if one wants to change jobs or go do something more of a passion project or something like that, it’s enough money where we can… At least survive. Okay, off of with having no housing expenses, no car expense, that type of stuff.

So that’s our plan is just a funnel, we’re still doing our 41s, our Ross, all that kind of stuff, but everything on top of those, we’re just playing on putting towards the properties for the next five years, getting those three paid off and then… Who knows? I’m sure, I’m sure the plan will change within the next five years, but that’s the plan as of now, and then for all other kind of entry level investors and people that wanna just get started, an FHA loan is, in my opinion, by far the best thing for somebody looking to get started.

And why is that because of the qualification criteria or the percentage or… Just for people who don’t know what an uh is, excellent, is a Federal Housing Authority loan, and it’s essentially government actor, government-protected or something of that sort, and you can buy up to a four-family unit using this type of loan, and you only have to put 3 and 5% out.

The other, I was able to use his hometown banker, got a good loan, worked out okay, but even then, they wouldn’t do that type of loan down in St. Louis, so this FHA loan, we still may have to put 35% down and we’re in a fixed rate for 30 years, and the end right now are around 3 a quart and a half percent.

So not that it’s nothing, but our parents grew up in the 15-20% interest rate days to be able to lock in a loan for 3-5%, 5% even. That to me is just crazy. So yeah, for anybody looking to get into it to only a 3% down, I mean, in my area, you can buy duplex for 1000 or less, so the… At the 5000 and put that towards a rental property and essentially have zero housing cost, to me, that’s the best investment anybody gets to make.

Yeah, absolutely. And what would you say about the risk tolerance with going from duplex to a triplex to a quote or something bigger, do you ever worry about the renters not necessarily paying or leaving or whatever it is that kind of changes your cash flow position for that month, or future months. Do you ever worry about that?

Yeah, definitely. I’ve been very fortunate so far that none of the original renters that I got have moved out so far, we’re only talking a year, but it’s been a year… Sure, everybody stayed so far, I’ve got fantastic runners. So it’s worked out great so far, but in my hometown, there’s a lack of rental… Rental property is available. So I don’t even like I’ve never had my places for ran, I won’t really tell that many people about them, and I still get at least one phone call a month.

Looking for a place to rent. And rent just keeps going up and up and up.

In my area, so yeah, I’m gonna have a month probably where I’m gonna fix some stuff up, rehab in that, but I’m not really worried about finding somebody in a good amount of time, and the same thing with Saint Louis, we had to fill one unit when we bought our for flex over in St. Louis, and we actually filled that from a friend of a friend before we lock closing on the property, and so we have, I would say, upper middle to upper middle class places, I would say where they’re not… But they’re definitely not the worst, so we’re kinda in that… What I think is the sweet spot where we still are able to charge decent rent, but it’s not behind, it’s not… The low was not gonna crash on him… Yeah, and rental prices go down and that type of stuff, I feel like our places are in that nice middle ground where we’re not trying to get decent or anything like that, and we’ve got some white room in them and what would you say for people who maybe don’t wanna go full… For a duplex or a triplex, let’s talk single family home, would you recommend that to people or you think that’s too much risk ’cause it’s one return… If they’re gone, they’re gone. Plus the FHA loan is gonna be a little different. Meeting you haven’t really extended it to its full capacity, a everybody’s got their niche in their opinion, and there’s guys that’ll argue to their blue in their face that single families better than multi-family, and some guys say, You gotta get up into 10 12 unit apartment complexes and this, that, and the other. So there’s guys that have made fortunes doing at a house at a time, and there’s guys that save up a ton of money and by a 10-unit apartment complex as their first deal.

Alright, right on you kind of personal preference and what somebody’s been exposed to in that… I don’t know the house at a time, I just like the multi-family one because you can do the FHA and get more bang for your buck.

So we were able to buy essentially four rentals at one time doing that F, where if you’re doing the single family, you can only do one F at a time, really, or you could only even hold on if loan at a time. So if you bought a house F from one thing, you gotta live there for a year before you can rent it out… That’s one of stipulations.

Right, the… So you lived there for a year. Then you could rent it out. And if you wanted to do another FHA loan, then you have to refinance the place that you’re in now, get it to be not FH, and it’s just more of a process, I’m not saying you can’t do it and you can’t make money, but I don’t know for us right now, the apartments were just kinda easier to get a few of them quickly, it… It’s a good quick under the gate, ’cause a lot of people are probably looking at it and saying Either, oh well, one family, single-family home is easy for them to get, but then you don’t get the F, so you gotta put 50% down or something to that nature, or you gotta go for the multifamily, the large multi-family, like a 10-unit department complex, which like you said, requires a crap load of money up front, or else you really can’t put any money down, and I’m assuming you can’t qualify an F beyond that the four units… Is that what you were saying before? Yeah, that’s correct. So it’s gotta be four units or less and all in the same building, so it couldn’t even be like two… Sometimes they’ll be like two duplexes right next to each other, even sharing a lot in that, and from the way I understand it, it’s gotta all be one building, be able to qualify for the AA like that.

Gotcha. Now, what’s your guys goal… So you have all these strategies here, you got multiple units, you kinda have it all set up, you got the right loan type, but what’s the ultimate goal that you have with these properties, I’m assuming it’s not just a red properties, you’re trying to do something… What is that goal?

Honestly, the end goal for it since the beginning is really just the financial independent aspect, because we know as soon as all these properties are paid off paid off, even just the duplexes, then I know if they’re paid off, it gives us so much more freedom, like if one of us decided not to work, we could do that, having all the paid off, both of us could not work and then some… And we’d still be able to put funny away, it gives us more than enough wiggle room to live our lives and be able to pursue those passion projects like he mentioned, or travel the world and work remotely, it’s just the freedom and the options to do whatever you want… And what would you say you do differently today in preparation for this kind of long-term goal, ’cause there’s gotta be some sacrifice that you’re going through now to be able to kinda look… For the future, what does that look like for the people who might not understand that?Bonding a lot less money, right? Out there.

But I get it.

But going Okay, so would you say that you were… You’re probably good it anyways, ’cause with your guy’s age and going into this space, you have to be good with money or all too could never operate this type of business or side house over everyone to call it, but do you think that you are more frugal than you were before, or do you find that you’re just more practical and realizing like, Hey, I don’t need a 70-000 car.

I’d say practically frugal. I like the combination of those two is.

Okay, and I like the term, we really like to choose that I podcast, and they like the term value ist on their… Okay, it’s just we put thought into what we’re spending money in, like we were just talking about travel earlier, in between the two of us, we spent probably close to 10000 on travel. This passion here.

Wow, okay, so it’s still spending money, you’re just spending it in ways that are more quality or you’re extending those that value basically, you’re basically taking 10000 making it worth 20 because you spent it in the right way or spent to at the right time, or whatever it is to get that extra value out of it, right, and that 10000 is actually 10 trips plus travel awards that didn’t even include hotels and airlines for the most part, so it’s like we’re still doing more than what a lot of people are doing.

Right, what about time for people who work… I know you guys both have some different kinds of jobs there, but for somebody who’s got the standard go-to work every day, 90 to five type of job, how would they get into something like this… Is that even practical to travel and have these house hacking techniques, if they have that kind of job, or is this more… You gotta have a little more freedom to do these things up front, I mean, obviously would… More freedom comes more opportunities with anything, but I think it’s just kind of a stepping stone type deal where the more money you have in the bank or the more different sources of income, just the more freedom that comes with that, then we’re… By no means anywhere near having enough cash flow or money in the bank or anything like that to quoting retire right now, but we’ve got enough assets and enough flexibility right now where we don’t like one of this loss or job or some feel like that we don’t stress over where our next paycheck is gonna come from or something like that, but yeah, we’re both in sales jobs where we do have a lot of flexibility with that, and I’ll go home on my lunch, by lunch break and clean up my place for an Airbnb. That’s getting any check in that night or if a renters… Pipes leaking or something like that.

So six of my units are within five minutes in my office, so I can run there at any time throughout the day, for the most part, and take care of an issue, and then the other four units are in St. Louis, where we live most of the time, so we’re always right next to our units and that… Some people don’t like living next to the renters and there’s Per pros and cons, obviously with that, but at least you’re right there, you can see other properties are… It’s just easy to address issues, so I think that’s another great thing with doing the house hacking where you live in your rental, is that it’s a great way to start out real, ’cause I didn’t know hardly anything a year ago, obviously, I’d grown up with runs a little bit in that, but just like anything until you do it for yourself, you don’t really know, so that’s why I always tell people just start with the duplex, if it’s something you’re interested in, and you just wanna dip your toe into it, to me by… In a duplex isn’t that much different than buying a single-family house… Right, right. It is very similar. So maybe to switch gears a little bit here, just so that I can get your guys input on a few other things, you did this travel hacking too, right. So what does that look like to you guys? ’cause that’s something I do a lot myself, and maybe there’s an opportunity for people to learn a little bit about some of the travel hacking that you guys are doing, and I can definitely speak to some of the things that I do.

Yeah. Oh, oh, I get the child hacking portion.

Well, travel to one, the tall hacking is on that Travis is very hard at about… As I mentioned before, I know you’re kind of a Travel Hacking guru yourself, but the big thing, it really started from the choices last year, I know he started it more. I honestly initially started opening credit cards under Chase or the E… Chase Conlin, I mentioned you you last fall and I… Yeah, and so under that, we realize ’cause most of those rewards you’re getting 50, 60, I think 8000 points for some business cards each time you open a card and you’re spending between 3 and 5000, and to some people that might be crazy, obviously, if you can’t spend 3000 in three months, you shouldn’t be doing it in the first place, but… Right.

A lot of times, a lot of people can put their rent on it or a mortgage for a few months, or your recurring expenses like cable and gas and whatnot, so you just put everything you would spend on it, get the bonus. Move on to the next one. So right now we’re in the middle of doing Chase.

Yeah, for us, with having the rentals and that we have a lot of… You just look at… And how much savings most Americans have and how much credit card that they have, unfortunately, I think most Americans are spending a 100 a month or more on their credit cards, and that’s a whole different topic as far is probably looking to cut that down anyways, but if you’re regularly putting 000 a month on a credit card anyways, in my opinion, there’s no reason not to be doing credit card rewards now, if you’re keeping the credit card balance, priority number one is to get that paid off and pay it off every month, ’cause otherwise you’re… You’re losing more money than you would ever gain, but if you use credit cards responsibly, like I say in 5060, 70000 points on a credit card is anywhere from 500 to 1500 in travel rewards, in essence that you’re off of those points, and we took that… We did 10-ish trips this pasture, and we didn’t pay for a single one of those flights, didn’t pay for most of those hotel rooms… Rental cars, all that type of stuff.

We did two international trips to the weekend trip issue month or so, and spent probably three, four, maybe 5000 each for all of that over the course of the year, ’cause we were able to get the flights, the housing and all that covered, and mainly just a food and Bose.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. They’re on it as You’re bound in a round… And what about hotel? So do you do conventional hotels or did you guys do like Airbnb and some other kind of mixes as you’re traveling as well?

We didn’t mix the whole time, luckily with my job, I have a corporate account with hotel, so I can say… So I have signed up with I at Marriott IHG, I think we also have Hilton, so I’m able to rack up points anyway through work, which is awesome, but then Chase, which is what we’re going through now, has so many partners, so we’re able to use those points with those hotels on top of it as well, so we are… Well, see, it’s been 50-50 to the most part between your band hotels, once Chase partners up with Airbnb, that will probably be… To get more in line with Airbnb.

Yeah, but the other than just doing a straight cash-based reward card, at least I found maybe you know something that I don’t, as far as using credit card rewards points for Airbnb, ’cause I like Airbnb the best, for the most part. It’s just when you have these hotel points to use, it’s like you might as well stay at a hotel most of the time… Yeah, yeah, no, absolutely. That makes sense. The only thing that I’ve seen is more on the spending side than the actual reaping the rewards, it… You can get 5% cash back at Airbnb for a quarter of the year with some cards, you can kind of allow online purchases or some rolling category to get five back.

Yeah, compounding rewards, but to actually utilize the points from something like a Chase preferred partner to go out there and you take a Airlines flight for free. You can’t do that with Airbnb. I’m not aware of any partnerships like that, which I think is what you were talking about, that you’re hoping is gonna exist, hopefully that partnership comes along here before treat long, one day, Connor on day The… So just to wrap it up, but here, what kind of cards do you guys have right now, so what’s… What’s a standard everyday use for you guys, you’re doing change on… And it sounds like…

I feel like the better question is What cards… Don’t we have her in light not…

I’m sure you’ve done more than we have, but… Yeah, I mean, I think everybody should probably start with the satire preferred for the most part, they used to wave to feed now, I think it’s like 95 the first year or something along there, and I think you get 60 000 points, which is around 750, 800 somewhere in there to spend towards travel, and if you can find a way to open up business cards, that just opens up a ton of avenues for you for Chase, and we love the cards that give you the actual Chase Ultimate Rewards points, which on the personal side, I believe it’s just that chase that fire preferred or reserve, the reserve has the 45 fee, which scares a lot of people away, so that’s why I usually recommend the preferred, but then on the business side, there’s three other… Believe its three other business cards that you can sign up for that… Between a 50 and 80 000 sign-up bonus.

Yeah, so there’s the In re… There’s… That’s one of the, I think, 800000000 points there. And you got the south west triad, you got the personal, the small business, and then the corporate for South West, but what’s the other car that cards… You’re talking about anything business preferred, but then there’s also the chase in business, or the Chase in cash and the Chase business unlimited business. On the end, the Shah, you get 50-000 points for the ink business unlimited, and 50000 points for the ink business cash, 80 000 points for the case of business Preferred Card, and I believe it’s called. Wow.

Yeah, so just in one year alone, each of us wracked up 250000 Chase points or something like that, which Exchange out like 13 to 15 on the point for the dollar system, you kind of is in favor… Right, when you came in, I travel, you get a 25% bonus when you use it for travel, as long as you have either the in-business preferred or the Spire preferred.

So yeah, I mean I, I… My MAS Caribe, but it’s worth a lot more. You got 10000 points. It’s really worth 12 or 1300. exactly, yeah, so we each got over 3000 in value just on those four cards, and then I also did the two South West cards to get a companion pass. Oh, you did. Okay, gotcha.

Yeah, for anybody let that does the decent amount of domestic travel back to me is the number one travel hack that somebody should shoot for is signing up for the new Southwest Business card that they have, which gives you 70 or 80000 points, and then another Southwest personal card, which gives you 40 or 50000 points depending on what you had, and then they just upped it, so you gotta hit 125… 000 total points.

Yeah, between opening up two of those cards, spending a limit… Yeah, a decent amount of those over the first three or four months, we should hit that pretty quick, and the great thing with the companion passage, you could get it for the rest of that year, and then all of the following year, and that gets you by and get one, three flights for that entire time, right, provided that the companion is on board with the primary user, I believe, I think that’s the stipulation for the companion pass.

Yeah, so I have the companion pass and I can change it over the course of the year, but abbey’s my companion listed on it, so if I book a flight, I can add her to that flight at no cost. He’s gonna say a 5-99 fee or whatever it is, right? Taxes on it, but for essentially no cost, you can add on… You’re comparing in to any flight at… You’re booked on.

Wow, yeah, that’s definitely the standard hack and… That’s key does that too. He’s very big into having the companion pass for his kid, so him and his wife both fly and they both have the companion pass for the kids, so the four of them fly always together, four or two, I guess you’d call that. That definitely how we been doing to at… Yeah, it makes sense, ’cause then the day you’re like, if you’re gonna fly with somebody else, you might as well go for that kind of reward because it’s just worth it, right. The only downside is, like you said, it’s the year you get it in, plus the next year, so that’s not really unlimited unless you’re turning cards in a different way or doing some manufactured spend or something, I think it’s tough to get a long-term… Since we don’t have kids yet, it’s nice that we can rotate it is at least for now, as far as I know, if a Southwest card, you can get the bonus… Every two years, yes.

So I hit it in this year and I got it right in like January, so then we got it for that two years, and then Adiel do it next year, and then she’ll have it for two years, and then by time hers is expired, I can pretty well.

Sign up for mine again, unless Southwest changed with the rules, we can pretty much just rotate over time. Yeah, which one of us has the pain past… Yeah, that’s awesome. It sounds what you guys have really figured it, you got the rental properties, you got the two sales jobs, you got the travel hacking, the credit hacking, what else is left? Is that 100% of your guys time, just a contracts, they have medical equipment sales on side… Yeah, exactly, exactly.

That’s pretty cool that you guys have done that. And for people who are gonna listen to this, where should somebody start? You think, I know you talked about afire preferred being probably the card to start and a duplex, but for people who don’t really have a lot of knowledge is they’re a book, a podcast, a resource that you think that they should go after and look up so that they can have a little bit more literacy in this space, we really like to choose I podcast, and that’s all one word. Choose, it is a… Just the letters, F for financial independence. And it’s the podcast and they’re just too too normal guys that just kinda go over the basics of a lot of different Kind types of the Life Hacks more than anything I would say, in regards to optimizing your finances and just kinda getting everything in order.

That’s a good one.

I actually just came out with a book, which I haven’t read yet, but I’m assuming that would sum up some good basics, choose up… I think it’s called choose or your blue parent, your blueprint to financial security.

And then then I impact the podcast, that’s a good one, just kind of for all around. Yeah, it’s Tom a buy or so you… Yeah.

Oh yeah.

He’s very inspiring. He’s like, he’s like My Buddha and love him.

Yeah, I kind… If you wanna dive a little deeper into the rabbit hole, I really like Mr. Money Mustache, but that causes either money, my stash, get a little extreme for some people, I… He’s as an idea, or he’s got a blog post, I… No, no, no, in on it, he’s pretty much the money saving extreme choose up, I talked about life has… And he’s like, This is how the life had the Liga and he kind of… I don’t know, a lot of people call him the revolutionary and the financial independence movement, and he’s the one that kind of is like, he bikes everywhere. He doesn’t even have a car, you could live off of… What was it like 20 grand a year or something like that for family? With kids, he’s just… He’s like frugality at its best.

Gotcha, so it’s kind of like a Dave Ramsey, but even to the extreme, ’cause Dave’s talk mostly about paying down debt, sounds like money mustaches more on how to live on less than what you need. Yeah, more, more just along that value line again, where I’ll drop money on a Tesla if he thinks it’s gonna enhance his life and that he’s not opposed to spending money, but I think the way he described it, he likes to set up his day where he does something mentally stimulating, something physically stimulating and something like emotionally simulating or engaging with people, that type of deal there…

I just kinda like his philosophy, but he’s got a great article called The shockingly simple, is the shockingly simple math behind early retirement, and he just breaks down how much you need to save to be able to retire and out on a bunch of you… But I always just heard these numbers, you need remain 5 million, 10 million, these crazy numbers to be able to retire, and if you can cut down your expenses, you know, live a somewhat optimize life for most people, you need far less than that, and he just really breaks it down in the next leg.

Yeah, no, absolutely, and the thing is, the financial strategy that people have does not have to be based on just real estate or just credit card hack in your just travel hacking or just for gait can be a combination of those things. Right, as long as they’re willing to go through the process, I do some sacrifice to do some risk or do some pieces that are gonna actually help out in the long run.

Yeah, I think it’s really just being conscious of it more than anything, and that’s something that we’re passionate about and something that we potentially like to do down the road as to whether it’s financial coaching or just something really… Probably the high school level, ’cause it really blows my mind and hurt me that there’s essentially no financial literacy in the United States, and in a… In most states, it’s not taught at all in school, and I don’t know where I heard it from the heart saying one time where it doesn’t matter how much you make, if you spend more than you make, you’re always gonna be broke.

And that’s most Americans. It doesn’t matter, you are in 30000 or you earn 300000, you end up with the same amount of money in your bank count at the end of the year, and it’s just we’re not taught any different, and most people don’t even know that you can retire before 65 right, and that’s also a goal that some people have, that’s not even a practical goal, because that kinda shows that what are you trying to escape when you say you retire at 65… Why not retire at 35? What is retirement? All that is, is you’re saying, Oh, I’m stopping work. Right, and at the end of the day, the financial goal is, should not be necessarily tied to an age and years, it should be tied into your actual goals, right.

If you wanna retire at 30, can you wanna sail around on a boat, but work remotely. Great.

But I myself, I enjoy my job, I wouldn’t know what to do if I stop working. You know what I mean? I would be, I couldn’t fill it with enough things to make it stimulating enough, so it’s interesting that the goal is 65 for a lot of people, but at the end of the day, I think we all agree here that it’s really independent as to what each person wants, right?

Oh yeah, yeah. And for us, the same thing, we don’t even really like the retirement aspect that gets thrown into it a lot when the financially independent retire really different stuff like that, and for us, it’s more just kind of the financial independent side of it and the freedom to do whatever we want, and if it’s… If we wanna start a passion project or do something like that, just not being tied to a job where we have to be there every day, and you’re scared to step out on the limb or anything like that, and if you’ve got that nice financial runway and cushion to back you up, it just takes a lot of the pressure off. Let life.

Yeah, no, absolutely, and that’s why people have to get real serious about what they’re doing and what their goals are, so… Is there anything else that you guys thought that we should talk about before I wrap it up, or is that… Do you think that covers most of the high-end, the high-ticket kind of items… Yeah, it’s kind of what we wanted to cover, just a little bit on the rental properties and a little bit on the credit card hacking, that’s like the top two… Those are like two pillars of life, yeah, you can optimize your car and just not gone by the brand your car when someone get out of college or something like that, and if you can find a way to pull off a house hack fairly early in life, I mean, in my opinion, you’re 75% of the way towards its freedom and you go just from that and then just start putting one in your for 1A, you rot and just don’t look at it for 10 or 15 years. You’ll be pretty well on your way to financial freedom.

Yeah, absolutely. Well, I really appreciate you guys coming on the show. And tell me a little bit about what you’re doing here. If someone wanted to find out more, you gave some of those resources there, is there some way that they could find out, do you guys post any content yourself, do you guys have like a personal Instagram or a website or something that… That, that people could find out about what you do, a blog a little bit for a friend, and it’s just Rachel in dot com, and you can find me on there, I’ve got a few articles about financial independence house hacking, different stuff like that.

And that’s the other is a otherwise or building content in the Ghost World before we ever wanna post it kind of… Gotcha, our stuff figured out. Then do posting more down the road, so shorter… More about us. Like three years from now.

Alright, there we go. I look forward to reading it. Well, thanks again for coming on the show. And have an awesome night.

You do it anything at a tattoo…

I Teotihuacan it. I totalitarian OneNote, anaesthetist, Anatolian.

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