Hey, welcome back to the show. This is episode number 24, Part 3 of 6, with Dr. Matthew demand, and this episode is going over the growth mindset, talking about how to develop habits and have a deliberate practice that you can do every single day to help you move from one step to the next. It also covers time being the most valuable resource, and how if it’s not the right fit for you right now, then just cut off whatever you’re doing, cut your losses and move on to the thing that’s gonna help you go to the next level or to that end project, so what the dis… There’s something called the sunk cost fallacy, or you fill with this… No, not in resonance. The sunk cost fallacy is this idea where when a person devoted a lot of time, money, every otherwise resources that you put something… You put that into something. We’re really likely to use it or to either focus or otherwise to find ourselves in that way.

Sure, so think of it this way, and I think you’re actually a really interesting example here, most people, most chiropractors will say Go to school and her there for four years and they drop 200000 on an education, and because they’ve submitted that much time, money, energy resources into that degree program. What are you gonna do when you’re done that… Yeah, that you’re gonna do in the harbor, so… Because you have so much invested. Right, but what did you do?

Not that to something else. Yeah, yeah, exactly, but it’s really interesting because a lot of people will define themselves by those pursuits that they spend a significant amount of resources on.

Right, so with the sun cost, I think that applies across everything, everybody, it’s almost like confirmation bias, and the fact that you believe something yourself and doesn’t matter what anybody tells you, what evidence you get, you are just so locked into that, but I think if you talk back about some cost fallacy, my problem with the reason that I didn’t kind of stick in that space, the way that traditionally would be done, is the why I wasn’t big enough for me.

And so I kinda go back to that. I say, Listen, you can only have so much impact treating patients and that… Not to put down anything that anybody’s doing in that space, but for me, I was interested in How can I do more… So now a lot of our focuses on how can we have exposure in the healthcare space between businesses, educators and practice members, because at the end of the day, if you never bring new things to providers, the care never changes for patients. So I would much rather be one step above treating patients one-to-one and go one to a thousand different doctors and offer them an opportunity to either have a new product… A new service or a new way to do things, because then I go one to 100-2 million.

Which I, in my mind, maybe this is just made up, but in my mind, I think that’s a bigger approach and a bigger touch or a bigger footprint on the planet than just saying, I’m treating one-to-one, and for some people… That’s totally okay, right? It’s like the yes men, they want, they go to work and they wanna do this one thing and they never wanna push the boundaries. Right?

For me, I look at it and say, you can always make the money back, you can’t get the time back, but you can always get the money back, and the time you spend learning something that knowledge… No one ever said, you gotta put it in this box and use it this way, breaking apart and use it however you see fit. Education on, coming up with better ideas, if you come up with products, just solve problems, if you’re solving a problem, people will pay you for it and they will appreciate you way more than anything else, right. And so in education, the problem you’re solving is lack knowledge, by education looks like this for us people for you, it’s like go, right, just like this huge explosion of how many different things can be put together so that we don’t have to play in the sand box the same way, and that’s what you’re not gonna get from most people, that’s top 1% type stuff, that’s not average. So I think I agree it, you 100% that some cost is a big factor for a lot of people… Yeah, and as it pertains to that growth mindset, one of the things we need to constantly be reminding ourselves up and be careful of is that just because we’ve invested that time doesn’t mean we can’t change what we see here. People will put a lot of resources into getting somewhere that they think is appropriate in their life, and then they get to the other end and they realize like, Oh, well, I’ve invested this and I have to do it this way.

The way I teach it to my students is, in The chiropractic field, we have this conundrum of an over-abundance of specialty certifications, and we use… We use to treat people… So what we see is as providers, we don’t actually distinguish ourselves based on the patients that we provide, you have a heart problem, you’ve a long problem, you have a… Whatever, that’s not our specialty as chiropractors or specialty is in the service that we provide, so what you see is the niche chiropractor is actually the one who provides Active Release Technique or Nemo or a… Or a grasped it, or whatever it.

That’s how we define ourselves. Well, hey, chiropractic didn’t work for you because you went to a nine provider, that’s why you need to come and see me, because I do it differently. And I think that really, from a personal professional standpoint, I think that really dilutes What chiropractic is, what we’re able to do as a profession, but I think there’s a bigger concept to be looking at here that happens across the field, people in other industries and professions and certainly with entrepreneurs who are looking to be innovative with their pursuits, you put time, energy and resources into something so much so that you kinda get married to it and you’re not willing to let it go, that change… You don’t go to that next step because you’re so invested, but interesting you say that because I think you would challenge the concept of doing something just because you did it before it, just because you went to school doesn’t mean that has to be your ultimate outcome, but one of the things that I think, and this is just a personal opinion, but I think people do a lot of weird things for money, and the reason I say that is because a lot of people will think that they’re gonna go to school for four years and spend this money to get a ticket to go make more money or make their life easier, or have a great outcome or a beautiful house or a car or whatever stupid materialistic thing that they want it, not in… You can want whatever you want, but the problem is, is that people believe that it’s an investment in that you just get it back, right.

You spend the 200 in the four years. You get a back 10-fold, right? And that’s just not the way the world works, right?

There, when you leave school is when the work begins, and that’s what… Nobody’s patient of CCS, people are 25 to 30 years old, maybe even younger. That are like, Oh, I wanna get to the top right now.

Well, that’s not how it works. You have to go through these steps. And if you want to go to the next level, you’re gonna have to think outside the box. You’re gonna have to work a little longer, you’re gonna have to work a little hard, you gonna have to work a little smarter, and Hey, guess what, there’s gonna be some sacrifice along the way… Whatever that is, right?

And so I think a lot of people are very uncomfortable with trying to pursue something greater ’cause they’re not willing to sacrifice at the bottom, they just aren’t… They just go, Listen, I wanna drive my S-Class Mercedes right out of chiropractic school, and now now you’re tied to your job because you have a 600 lease payment on your car.

Yeah, well, I mean, to that point, I would say, I would caution and say, You don’t have to sacrifice at the bottom, I would try to avoid that as something to put out there…

I think it was Simon cynic, he talks about the millennial generation and that integrate cation thing, and we… But we’ve seen over the decades is all these millennials coming of age who are getting in to industry and starting their careers, and they want that purpose in that meeting, and they want it right now… Right, you… What they’ve lost in by no follow of their own, what they’ve lost is the ability to be engaged in the process, they don’t know how to be bored patients, patients is really a troubling thing. I think more what I was saying about the sacrifice side is that there’s this balance of sacrifice entitlement, there’s this… I finish chiropractic school, so I get X. and that’s just not the way it works. Right, at the end of the day, the world is a very complex place, and I think if you go through those stages of working hard to better yourself over and over and over, eventually it works, eventually you get better. If you look at last year this time, you would probably say that you are better today than you were 30, 65 days ago.

It’s continuous improvement, right?

But a lot of people don’t do that step, they don’t push themselves that hard, they just kinda flat line or get just a incremental, they don’t wanna go for that huge push.

I don’t know what your thoughts are on that, but that’s just what I’ve observed a little bit recently, again, I think… And I think, unfortunately, it’s because society, over the last couple of decades has trained people this way with the advancements and improvements in technology, they put everything right in our fingertips, we get… We get that same kind of sense of purpose, of value, of meeting every time, every time somebody watches our take talk video or like this… The radios.

Oh yeah, and we get excited about those things and we’re looking for that same kind of feedback in our work lives as well, so when we go to work and we have to work for eight hours a day, or we have to do that for 48, 52 weeks a year, and at the end of it, nobody is Toss like patting us on the back or saying congratulations all the time for that effort, it’s a system that’s distinct and separate from what we’ve been exposed to previously… Right, we’re constantly getting that feedback of, Look how amazing our world in society is, and everybody is giving us these accolades, but we’ve never really taken the the time to say, How did we get from point A to point B?

What… There’s a… Oh, what is it? I’m gonna mess this quote up, it’s such a cheesy quote from it, it’s a… Hold on, I… The Aston Kutcher and Brittany Murphy movie. I think it’s just married, and the whole movie is based on the premise that this newly wed couple goes on a European honeymoon and it’s just an absolute shit show… Sorry for saying that. That’s all gone.

It’s so bad.

And at the end of it, as pictures character as common to his dad, and they’re going through a photo album, and he says something to effect of, it’s time to grow up. Life is what happens from one happy snapshot to the next, and it was just such a powerful comment that, yeah, we try to highlight and look at immortalized all these really happy moments in our life, but what happens from point to point is all that stuff in between the tube, the toil and what you were saying, the sacrifices, we get there, why do you deal with… Right, right. And I think that is… You made that comment about, you don’t always have to sacrifice at the bottom, and I think that’s super true. What I think a lot of people don’t do is they don’t look at it and say, What do I actually want to get out of this, right? They just go, I’m just doing stuff, I’m just show up every day and do stop.

But the people who have a goal that is bigger than just themselves or bigger than just their family, these massive goals, they look at it and say The… Yeah, I’m not doing Friday nights, I’m not doing Saturday nights for the next five years, because when I’m 30, I wanna have an impact, that’s huge, and that’s the level of personal sacrifice that people have for their work or for the future for the people, and it’s really interesting, because people sacrifice things for their spouse and their families all the time, but then when it comes to work sacrifice, you’re actually sacrificing something for yourself… Just yourself in five years.

And so people look at it and say, I don’t wanna do that. I’m doing, I’m sacrificing it for my boss, you’re not doing it for your boss, you’re not doing it for anyone else, but yourself, you’re gonna eat shit for five years, and when you come out the other side, you’re going to be a better person because you went through all of these difficulties, right.

I’ve learned more in the last 12 months on business than I could ever learn in Business 101 or any course anywhere, and that’s just because I just got kicked in the teeth for 12 months trying to figure out how to run a business.


And so people say, Oh well, there’s… What kind of sacrifice is there… Well, here’s the SAC-Christ work 15 hours a day, I work every weekend, I’m on planes in 42 different states this year. That takes me away from other things in my personal life, but I’m sacrificing it now because I believe that what we’re gonna do in the future, it’s gonna be bigger than just me, that’s the belief, and maybe that’s the wrong belief, but I think on the day it’s like you sit there and you get kicked in the teeth and you go, Dang, this sucks, but you gotta get back up tomorrow, you gotta do it again, and you do that over and over again, and eventually becomes easier, easier. And I think a lot of people, they get kicked once and they go, I’m not…

I don’t wanna do it. I think of this sucks, I’m done, and I think everybody’s had those days… Doesn’t matter where you’re at in your life. You have those days where you sit there and you go, I’m pretty sure I can’t do tomorrow, I can’t do the next day, I can’t do the next thing, and it feels like that, but here’s the thing you go to see if you wake up tomorrow, it’s there, so just do it, you know what I mean? Just go out there and don’t worry so much about it, because at the end of the day… If it was easy, everyone would do it.

That’s just straight up habits of the compound interest in self-improvement there, he got… Exactly, right. And that’s the thing is like you talk about patients, right? That’s the Gary Baer check type way, you… He says, You’re just young. That’s the way that patients is key, if you do the habits every single day and you’re expecting 20 to 21 to be a difference, you’re gonna lose every time because it’s 21 to 31, where the difference is made, it’s not tomorrow.

And so a lot of people let themselves down ’cause their expectations are up here, reality hits, and there’s this gap and you’re like, Okay, well, there’s my happiness gap and I have no happiness because I’m expecting the world and I’m not getting any of it, but the problem is you measure that within this sliver of time, which is one year for six months, you gotta measure that over 20 years or 30 years and say, How can I build a health wealth and happiness over time, and you just can’t do that in six months, it just doesn’t work. So I think that’s where people get… You talk about habits, you gotta build to have it every day, so I never get into high-level stuff, a really high… So there was only one other thing and I wanted to talk about and where I see where it went.

Yeah, when it comes… When it comes to around growth mindset, one of the things that comes to mind is there’s this a trainer named Frank Shamrock, who was Colwell, the plus minus and equal system, and basically to become great, you need to find a person who you can learn from, so somebody who’s better than you? You need somebody who’s lesser than you so that you can practice teaching and actually exercise that, but you also need to find somebody who’s equal to you so that you can constantly be challenging yourself.

Interesting, that is a very interesting way I like… And I think people have that in their life, they just don’t recognize, that’s what I would say is that at the end of the day, there’s always somebody who’s better, smarter, happier, makes more money, is more accomplished on you, there’s always people who are below you on that scale, and then there’s a great mix of people in that middle person, ’cause you got that bell, that kind of average and further, I would say for sure, the further you go to the right on the bell curve, the less people you’re gonna have that are in that Equal section, meaning that it’s very hard to continue to go forward because you believe that there’s this scarcity mindset that you can’t actually get to that next level. Right, there’s this, I think Dan Pena, he says, Show me your friends and I’ll show you your future.

Yeah, and it’s true, because as you go through this entrepreneurship journey or this growth mindset journey or this personal growth journey, I think a lot of people aren’t willing to let go of some things, there’s gonna be the people in the processes and the things you do every day that need to be eliminated. To get to the next step, do you need to check your phone 500 times a day? No, do you need to reply to every email right now… No, I do, you need to stay up and watch 17 episodes of Netflix. Or could you maybe do three… Right, there’s some other things. And if you go to Gary Vee check again, he talks about a huge thing, a growth mindset, and this plus minus that you’re talking about right now, and he says, If you compare yourself to somebody else, you’re gonna lose every time, because you have no idea where they’re at on that line, you just don’t… So what you’re talking about is this plus minus and equal, you better choose that equal very humbly, because if you choose that person way below you or way above you, you’re gonna be disappointed all that all the time.

So I think that’s probably the hardest election, and it’s not hard to find someone who’s way better than you, that is not hard, we can always do that, and there’s always someone who is way works often you, but finding that person that you think is equal, that’s gotta be tough.

Yeah, so… So from a training perspective, one of the things that I really like about that concept is you really should pursue to have all three of those people in your wheelhouse… Yeah, looked that mentor who’s above you that you can constantly model and learn from, you need that person who is your equal, so they can constantly be pushing you and give you just a consistent challenge, but you… But having those people that are lesser than you, it’s about acknowledging opportunities, if you have people who are lesser than you who are pulling you down, that’s a very different dynamic than somebody who’s less that you’re using it as an opportunity to now bring them up because to them, you’re there plus their plus, that’s exactly.

So if you’re engaged in relationships, and you know, again, to answer in answering that question of why, if you’re engaged in a relationship and you’re using an opportunity with somebody who’s maybe not at your level yet, to really hone your on skills and see what you are able to develop from a teaching perspective, that’s a really good opportunity to hone your skills.

Yeah, they say Everybody in some regard is a teacher, and it doesn’t matter if you’re 80 or 12, you use the example earlier about tick, talk a guarantee every 16-year-old out there know how do you use take top it circles around either vice.

Yeah, exactly.

That in mind, it doesn’t matter how old you are, what your other life experiences are in certain categories, you are gonna be the expert… Yes, on the other end of that, we need to be able to be humbled and willing to receive that information to ultimately make better peoples of ourselves.

Yeah, no, that’s a really interesting concept. I think if you look at it long-term to people are more and more so I think in the pursuit of greatness now, I think before, because everyone wasn’t so connected with the internet and the social platforms, people wouldn’t have anything to compare to, but now I think if you have the right growth mindset, you look at these people, these pluses, as you say in your life, what’s that? Plus in your life.

And try and say, How can I get to that level? How do I get to that person?

Whereas, 20 years ago, you didn’t have the access to see the potential mentors in your life, and the mentors don’t have to be people you talk to directly, I think there’s a lot of… Maybe you’re a Gary V fan and you wanna strive to be that, maybe you’re a Grant Cardone, find you wanna be that, maybe you’re looking at BJ Palmer in the chiropractic space, and you wanna look at that, those can all be mentors if you’ve never actually talked them because you consume the content, you chop it all up, you learn from it, you make an adjustment and you get better tomorrow, and that’s where I think the more places you have in your life, the better… You just have to have them. There’s just no other way.

Yeah, and I’m gonna speak to speak to that acknowledgement of what you’re actually doing, I think it’s important to talk about just briefly the… About deliberate practice, can you break down the different sub-skills that are Doran specific and not just spending time on a task as part of your performance? The two analogies that I use with my students is, one is to, if you wanna get better at something, you have to practice it, you can’t just do it, think about how many hours you spend typing on your keyboard or computer, but you don’t ever get any faster.

Yeah, right, ’cause you don’t practice, but you don’t practice… You don’t practice those fundamental skills that actually make you be a better typist, so that you actually improve that as a skill… Right.

So when it comes to adjusting, so again, here’s specific to the chiropractic world, when it comes to adjusting, adjusting your patients, treating your patients, that’s a game day.

That’s perfect.

Sure, that’s… That’s not your area to practice, that’s high stakes, you’re dealing with patients help, you need to give yourself a low-stake situations, D that allows you to fail and really adapt that growth mindset so that you can learner your week, improve upon it and then apply it. When the time comes. Right, so I, I tell all of my students, regardless of whether you are working on your adjusting skills today or maybe some of your diagnostic skills, you don’t wait until that patient walks in your door, you…

I tell every one of my students, every patient with low back pain needs to have an abdominal exam, not because I think that they actually have an abdominal problem, but because I need to rule it out as a competing diagnosis or associated things if a student… If a practitioner takes it upon themselves after a history to say, Oh, well, it doesn’t sound like it’s anything, it abdominal… So I don’t need to assess it.

If you take that skill away and practice, I’ve palpate thousands of agents and on thousands, tens of thousands of domnall exams, and I know what normal feels like because I felt normal bat many times, and on the couple of instances where something else felt abnormal every single time when I’ve sent them out for imaging, it’s come back with something… Right, because I’ve practiced. I’ve practiced when it didn’t matter, so that… When it didn’t matter, I was able to find it, yeah.

Yeah, and that self… That self-discipline really. Right, you gotta have the discipline to wake up every day and say, I’m gonna practice something that I think I’m already good at, but I could be better at, ’cause you can’t practice everything all the time, so you have to be selected with that, and that’s a very… Specific case of where you’re practicing right. And at the other the day, you probably know more than 999% of the chiropractic profession on Palpatine Optimis.

Right, I can’t say that I have any experience in that. I mean, but you’ve taken it upon yourself to learn that skill and get good at it, and so now I could go feel it and I’d have no idea compared to you.

Well, yeah, it back to some of our earlier earlier points, one of the things with the Educator mindset, when I went into school and as I move forward, everything that I do personally and clinical practice has been to set me up as an educator, and one of the things I need to teach my students is, you need to know how to do this. And here’s the reason why. A reason why a… Yeah, I was actually in a declaratory ruling hearing, we are one of the chiropractors who was being questioned, said to the board of examiners, I do not perform any vital signs in my business.

And to me, that broke my heart.

Because to not do what I would consider men, um, competency health screen or examination for every patient that comes into the office is really to cheap and is really the cheap in their experience.

Yeah, it’s very interesting. It’s a crazy world out there. You look back and you got experience, you kind of test yourself against the norm and your mindset against the norm, and I feel like now more than ever, you start to realize how little we know about everything, right.

We think that the specialists in podiatry, no, six inches of the body, the specialists in chiropractic try to learn the spine, other things, but let’s just say this, fine, to keep it simple, the cardiologist learned the six inches of the heart… The problem is that doesn’t matter how deep and how narrow you go, you can never know everything, and if you try to come back up from that narrow and deep… Not mindset. There’s too many things to learn.

So the question becomes, where do you wanna focus?

Yeah, that… No, that’s a great point.

I think that’s… We need both kinds of people in our world, we need those… We meet those specialists that obsess over content so much that they’re almost blinded to other things, but because they’re so obsessed with it, they’re really able to push the envelope of a current understanding of knowledge is… That’s really the idea behind a PhD program, right?

Right, you go to a PhD and you become obsessed with one very specific question that needs answered, you add a little blip to re-Existing, feel a knowledge, and then all of the other PhDs all over the world in the same whatever five year time are investigating similar things, alright, and after 10 or 20 years, the culmination of those efforts becomes, Oh, here’s a chapter in a book.

Now in undergrad is reading and 20 years later that chapter gets condensed into a paragraph, and then 20 years later, it’s such common knowledge now that it’s one sentence. Yeah, and that’s how we push education forward, we need get those specialists to really drive it home, so I applaud anybody who’s willing to dedicate their life to that, so I say there’s room for everybody, be that specialist can understand that that’s gonna be to… Or back it up and be a little bit more to general… The IEEE.

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