It’s becoming more important to everyone, and I think everyone’s asking, Should I be on tick? Talk is to talk. Important to me, why should I care? And I think the reality is any new technology that has a great potential for your business is important to pay attention to and that’s kind of center the conversation maybe around looking at things a little bit different with… This episode is brought to you by my own Gort containing, a trivial consulting services focus on how on that grow your personal or business plan, 1-7 million followers on Pico that she has developed solutions to help you grow your business, your pipeline, sales and online presidents in the shortest time hospital to learn more schedule deployment like monkey boy arts actually know about content, we’re calling back in the two zeroes in free nine even in more.


Welcome back to The prospecting show. Today, we have my on Gordon on the show, thank you so much for coming on. How are you?


I’m doing great, thank you so much for having me. How are you today?


Good, thank you. So I think today for the listeners, we’re gonna talk about a bunch of different things, but before we do that, why don’t you give us some background on who you are or where you come from, and just a little bit of an encompassing, what makes you you… Yeah, so I guess if you go all the way back… I’m a pretty unique person, I grew up in an orthodox Jewish family. Growing up, I went to a Orthodox Jewish school called Seattle Hebrew Academy, and then I transferred in from that and switched from that to an almost all black school called AI choose, which is in Rainer Beach and Seattle. I grew up in Seattle, so a little bit more of the ghetto neighborhood, and then I went from there to a mostly white privileged high school called Lake Side.


And then from there, I went to Occidental College for a year and a half before I dropped out and started up my entrepreneurship career, and since then, after finding that I have this absolute love and fascination for business in general, and how to sell to people, and why people buy things that I have been taken through the realms of email marketing, social media marketing, and not really focus on social media marketing because it’s where the height of technology is allowing the most opportunity… Yeah, and that’s an interesting topic, ’cause I think a lot of people in the past have been in an SMA social media marketing agency and have gone through that process with Facebook taking off and all of that, and now we’re seeing this big shift in both the business world on LinkedIn, but also tick talk as a consumer platform, so maybe talk a little bit about where you see things going as a whole to start… Yeah, so where I see things going as a whole is that people are gonna be buying less and less based off advertisements, and they’re really gonna be using the internet and the social media platforms more as informative tools for them to figure out who they wanna buy from and support and that a lot more sales is gonna be done off businesses websites or even in-store, I think in-store might possibly get a come back if they’re able to figure out that human interaction factor is so important and such a big thing when people come into stores to purchase, that I think that that could become actually more popular and people wanna go into the store and have that be an experience when they’re buying something, but I think in general, it’s gonna be harder and harder to sell directly online as consumers become more and more educated and aren’t going online anymore to make purchases, but they’re going online more and more for entertainment, and I think education.


And do you see a specific trend with products versus services, do you think that people are going to one spot to buy services online and one spot to buy products, or do you think it really varies kind by the industry?


That’s a really great question. I think it definitely varies very much, but certain industries are just geared more towards online and certain industries are geared more towards in-person, for example, when I buy a piece of equipment for my glass blowing business, I’m not gonna buy it online, I’m gonna look for somewhere where I can go look and talk to someone who has some information about it and I can really see it and feel it in person before I make that purchase versus… I think services can be a little bit more leaning towards online because you can get really good information about testimonials or other people have used the service and it’s done well, and a lot of services these days are also online, but if you’re talking about a service like a haircut, obviously, that’s not gonna be happening online, so it’s very specific to the industry, and do you think that there’s going to be a transition from the services that used to be offered face-to-face to being more online, so for example, we have a consulting business and we used to have to fly everywhere to meet people, right, you fly in, go do this meeting. You do see advisor, then you leave, and now with things like Zoom and some of these other workflow technologies, you’re able to sit at home, do your conversation, to your consulting, do your advisory, whatever it is, and still have that business. Do you think that’s making it more effective, or you think it’s just a laziness kind of thing that people are going through?


No, I definitely think it’s an efficiency factor if I can meet with 20 people from my living room versus only five people, because I travel time in person, it makes more sense both in terms of time and productivity to be doing things online, if it adds speed to it… But I think that there’s always gonna be an in-person factor that people admit and are able to receive energy, and we’re actually very skilled at this, and so in-person, I think always has an advantage in that you’re able to transfer your physical energy to someone else in a way that is harder to do online and in some capacities is not as possible.


Sure, absolutely, and if we look at the spectrum, ’cause you talked a little bit about doing 20 meetings versus five meetings, where do you fall your opinion on quality versus quantity? I know there’s this online, you can do massive quantity, but you can also still have good quality relationships, so do you think people should be focusing on their business more on talking to more businesses and hitting that quantity, or should they be focused more on the quality or is it really just a mix of the total… Yeah, so I definitely have a leaning towards quantity, but that’s with a caveat and a requirement of having the intention of still producing the absolute best quality, and the reason for that is I really believe in the power of our brains being so… So much more vast than we even could imagine, and I think if you push yourself to do more repetition, but at the same time you’re telling your brain, Hey, we’ve got… Again, this is high quality as possible, your brain catches up to that and performs when you put the pressure on it, versus if you say, I’m gonna have the best quality, but I’m only gonna do five meetings and for some reason doing less number is gonna allow me to do higher quality, I don’t think that that’s true at all. I think you could do just as high quality 20 meetings as you could five, it would take time for you to get to that level, but I certainly think that… We’re all capable of that.


Yeah, I would definitely agree that. I think the other thing too is people mistaken or don’t understand the difference between quantity and quality, and they look at it and say, Well, 20 meetings is high quantity, so it just must be low quality… Right into your point.


That’s not always the case, right? You can still have great quality conversations and still have that volume, I with you at 16 million people on tidal, that’s a huge quantity of people that you have, but at the same time, you’re still having quality engagements with those people.


So a little bit about that, with your experience on it, having such massive numbers in a short period of time, how has that kind of shaped your framework or your mentality around marketing and being online?


Yeah, so it’s definitely changed how I really see marketing in terms of value, I used to look at marketing in terms of value as just being something that could make me money, so when I was really on Instagram heavily with my glass willing business, I saw the value in that when I posted, I made money off of those posts in terms of direct sales, and what tip talks allowed me to do, and I open my mind up to, is that there’s a lot more value out there that maybe isn’t converted into money yet, but is it at a greater value than a sale that I should definitely be paying attention to.


I think most really, really big businesses did not get to the level of the value of their business off sales alone, really a huge part of it was branding or kind of outside value that they were able to create through more than just sales.


Yeah, and that’s actually a super important point because there’s a huge difference between brand awareness and branding and marketing and then actual sales, and so with what you’re doing now, from going from Instagram to tick talk, what you notice is the primary difference… I know that the platforms are different as a whole, but what do you experience different being a leader in both of those spaces?


Yeah, so I think the people on each platform are different, it’s almost different demographics. People on Instagram, I would say, are more looking for something, they’re either searching through pictures and videos in a specific hashtag, find something ’cause they’re interested in it, or they’re looking for motivation if they’re following Gary V or one of those other influencers, but people are a little bit more searching for something versus when personally, I use Tic Tok and I’ve noticed other people use tip talk, it’s more of a relaxation tool, it’s more something they’re engaging with, then using as a simple one-way kind of interaction is something much more engaging and it’s something that they’re gonna take with them off of the platform, so they’re gonna talk about it with their friends, so it’s got a lot more engagement around IT in general. And I’d say that’s the biggest difference.


Sure, and for those people who may be have used Facebook and Instagram and maybe they’re not running ads, but they’re just on the platform, they’ve been in business for a while, and I came into this tech age, could you break down the difference for those people between… Where tick talk plays versus Instagram versus Facebook, like where you see the landscape of those three platforms in terms of demographics or in terms of… Well, yeah, we’re probably demographics, but also the difference in format, there’s a lot of people that I talk to that really have no idea what tick talk is, so maybe you could just give a little bit of a background on that too.


Yeah, absolutely. So if I was gonna describe of those platforms in terms of format and just structure, so Facebook has both a lot of video, text and picture, but I would say is much more heavy on text.


There’s a lot of words on Facebook that you’re looking at, a lot of people’s posts. Where you’re doing a lot of reading on Instagram, I would say it’s much more picture, video-focused, but I would say still leaning towards picture, I see a lot more pictures than I do videos, and there is still a lot of captioning, but the platform itself is only showing you a smaller amount of the caption, you have to click to expand the caption, whereas tick talk is the other end of the section, it’s all video, there are captions, but they’re hard to see, they’re a very, very small portion of the screen, and they’re actually layered on top of the video, so that the video is still taking up the entire screen, and that’s kind of the format differences.


Sure, and for people who just dabble a little bit in social media and don’t really have a good experience, would you recommend that they go towards tick talk or you think it’s a very specific industry that should be there, like I know you’re doing Lapland, so that’s a very, very specific kind of group, and that lends well, the tip talk, but do you think any business could benefit from Tito?


I do, because it’s got such great insensitive AI, even if there’s no one else on the platform yet in your industry, the AI is gonna be able to pick up if the content you’re making is interesting to other people, and that’s something that every business should want to know is what kind of content I’m producing and putting out there, are people even interested in it, or do I need to do tweet counter and presenting it so that people become more interested in it, and I think that’s valuable to every single business.


Yeah, and those demographics and feedback metrics that you’re getting, definitely help with your experience in your growth so far, what kind of strategies would you say that people need to use in any of those platforms? Maybe we talk about Tito first, but any of those powers, how can they grow their network quickly, but also create value for their customers, so it’s not just ad after ad, after at… Yeah, absolutely. So I think that there’s three kind of pillars that you can fall into with content that is gonna bring value, and one of those is 3Es entertainment, education and empowerment, if your video or your content, whatever you’re posting, touches on one of those three things, then you’re gonna be providing some type of value to your consumer base, and that’s across all platforms and with your experience, because you have the glass blowing, do you find that people are interested in seeing more of the process of your business, or are they interested seeing the result… How do people actually interact with your business there? What’s important to them?


Yeah, so the most important thing to my business in terms of getting attention and doing well in these social media platforms is what I would call the satisfaction factor, so people enjoy watching my videos because it makes them feel satisfied, it makes them feel relaxed. That’s the number one thing that draws people to my content, but again, there’s a lot of factors, so people are curious about it, ’cause it’s something maybe they’ve heard of or seen a clip of or a glimpse of, but don’t really have a lot of information on… And so there’s that educational factor that people are pretty interested in, people say that they’re very interested to see the finished pieces, but when I do, I reveal videos, those don’t do that well, so what really that tell…


I wanna see… They wanna see the whole length of the process, it’s not that the reveal itself is more important, it’s just they wanna feel that completion as part of the satisfaction factor.


Yeah, and I think that that’s a very world-wide kind of phenomenon, but specifically in North America, I think that that’s a huge… We need to see things, but also the process of doing things is something that really interest people, so I definitely think there’s value there in your LinkedIn profile, you talk about how you’re a tick tock consultant, but then you’re also a branding expert, so where do those two separate between tick. Talk and branding would. Maybe tell everybody about that.


Yeah, so when I think about branding, I think about how do you get your core values of your company and your mission across to your customers in a way where it’s their mission and their core values as well, and so to talk is really just a tool to do that along with any other type of social media or any a really on your phone, it can be a tool for branding, if you’re using it to disperse your message and your values that are gonna draw people to your company.


Yeah, and I think you’re definitely hit the nail in the head there in that tick talk is the current platform, but the skills that you’re developing in the branding space, in the business ownership space, are gonna carry across different platforms and 10 years from now, I almost guarantee there’ll be a different platform.


So those skills are really what matters as opposed to just the platform that exists today, so for the people who are just kind of starting out and are looking to you as somebody who’s an expert in the field… Where would you recommend they start?


Yeah, so it’s definitely a tricky place to start when there’s an entire sea of information and possibilities, I would say is just really change your mindset to be interested in learning and value learning more, that’s been one of the huge things that’s propelled me to recent successes in the past one to two years is really focusing on what can I learn, because inherently, when you learn, you’re able to teach and disseminate that information, and that’s what’s really gonna make you stand out from the rest and propel yourself forward and really build a brand around yourself.


So I lost a little bit track of what the specific question was… If you wanna repeat it. No, I mean, that’s pretty much it. I think they call… The big part is, there are so many people out there right now that have a small business, there’s something like 40%, I think in the next five years, 40% of Americans will be self-employed or contractors, and so there’s all the people with small businesses that are looking to work from home or work from a crowd crowd shared place, and they’re always looking to get their brand out there because they’re not working in the normal work environment, they don’t have as much exposure, so they’re leaning towards LinkedIn, Instagram, Facebook, tick, talk. And I think my question to you is, where do you think most small business who should start, should they do a little platforms, should they double down on one, where should they focus most of their time… Great question. Yeah, no, I do have an opinion on this. So I think that if you’re starting from scratch, let’s say you have no social presence online, I think it’s really important to pick one and learn as much as you can about that one platform and how to use it to your advantage because like you said, inevitably, all the things you learn on that one platform are gonna apply at some level to either a different platform or some other part of your business.


I do think it’s important for businesses to do a little research to find out what are the best platforms for my industry, there is gonna be some information about that online for most industries, for example, photography, if you looked up what’s the best platform for promoting photography services there’s gonna be some good information online that helps point you in a good direction, I would imagine interest would be a really big one, and that there’s other maybe sort of niche, smaller platforms that you’re gonna have a really high success rate at because they are more targeted to exactly what you’re looking for. Sometimes it’s not always best to go on the biggest platform, sometimes if there’s a platform that’s really kind of tailored to your industry or niche, and you have good creative ideas for how you can do well on that platform, that… That’s the best place to start.


And with that said, how would people actually find your profiles online, you have… Give us some handles so that people can look up and see kind of the stuff that you’re doing.


Yeah, absolutely. So my tick talk out, my glass blowing one is world of glass, spelled just like it sounds. And then I have another food-related one on tick talk as well, which I think is good to look at for contrast, that one is joy of food, and then on Instagram, I have two accounts, one is monkey boy glass, and the other is monkey boy aren’t…


I’ve really been experimenting and switching around with Instagram as Instagram’s changed, so I started off doing almost only auctions on one of my pages, so all my posts were auction posts, and now I do hardly any type of selling on that platform because it’s becomes so much less effective. And then on LinkedIn, I’m Moore, so that’s May Nast name Gordon and I’m on Facebook too, but I don’t really do too much with it. I do some stuff in groups, but not really with my Facebook pages or anything.


Sure, and with your experience so far, and now that you’ve been on all these different platforms, where do you see LinkedIn specifically with the use cases that you’re going through, you have your Tick-Tock, you got a couple different channels there that you’re working through, and they’re very specific, How does LinkedIn play into what you’re done… So Linda’s amazing, it’s definitely my number one platform, I like it even more than talk at the moment, it has for me more potential in terms of connecting me to people, which for me at this point is where I can get and bring the most value. Building out a community and a network and building my own personal brand with other individuals who are really up high and organizations and holds a lot of influence on a different type of level than social media influence on, so I’m looking to build my brand and build my name in the business world, which really doesn’t center around social media, all other than LinkedIn, I’d say in the past year, I was really started making waves since it has really made its platform almost as good as Facebook, I would say in terms of the features in terms of the easy use in terms of the layout, it’s very similar looking to Facebook, and I remember I’ve only started actively using LinkedIn in the past four, five months, but I actually… I’ve had a LinkedIn account for years and years, it was one of the first things I got when I was an internet marketer, and back five, 10 years ago, it was just a list of names. There were no features where you could post, you couldn’t really post anything, it was just almost like a black book of contacts, and so how far it’s developed in terms of its abilities and features is kind of mind-blowing to me, and I’m really excited to see where it’s going… ’cause I think it’s just getting started… Honestly, yeah, and I think a lot of these platforms are adapting pretty quickly, they’re changing over time, and they’re developing a specific marketplace that makes the most sense for the user ship now, with your professional services, what services do you actually render to other businesses? Are you doing mostly social media marketing, are you doing affiliate marketing, where do you actually kind of fit in… Yeah, so I fit in as a consultant right now, I’m kind of the awesome sauce that you can add to your equation if you’re already doing things really well, or if you want to short-cut all the time it would take to learn about Tito on your own. I can kinda give you that information that’s gonna be most important to most useful to you very quickly, in a probably a higher depth level, then you would be able to kind of find online and all have unique insights that I can share about how your business might be able to leverage tick talk and some other social media things that they already have going on, so I really enjoy consulting, that’s kind of where I’m focusing my efforts right now, I’m also building out a couple of digital products like e-books and working on a membership site that’s gonna have access to my videos in a really organized way, that way if people do wanna do it on their own, not spend a lot of money on consultation, they have a really good resource and are able to get new information on a really regular basis ’cause that, to me, that’s a really important part of building a membership website is that it’s not just a collection of information, but that is something where you’re gonna continually be getting new information and new value.


Yeah, I think that kinda speaks to the value, price match, if you’re constantly putting out new content and that’s driving the value of your online platform up, which ultimately is gonna lend to people seeing it as more valuable and having a higher work… So I definitely think having those recently, there’s lots of courses that I think people have done that are one and done type courses where there’s six hours of content and it hasn’t been updated in two or three years, so I definitely think the recent is… Is a huge win? Beyond that, with your consultations, are you focusing mostly around tick talk or just social branding in general, where is the actual Consultant approach there?


Yeah, so my approach is to come in and say, I’m a CTA consultant, because that’s the thing where people recognize they need the most help with… They go, I don’t know anything about Tic talk, I need help with that.


Most people, I think their egos are a little bit too high to think I’ve got a good handle on my social media, and I know what I’m doing with the rest of my social media, so I don’t try and advertise myself as a social media consultant because people don’t think that they need help with that the same way they recognize that they need help with it, but in my mind, I see myself much more as a social media and branding consultant than specific to touch… Really just a tool that I understand how to tap into and its technology is more advanced and that’s why I’m more successful with it, but the same things apply to really all the other platforms in different ways with caveats, of course.


Yeah, absolutely. And so if somebody wanted to reach out to you to get a consult or talk to you a little bit about the services you have, what would be the best way for them to do that? Would it be through tick talk or do you have an email? What would be the best way?


Yeah, so definitely through LinkedIn, if you’re connected to me through LinkedIn or email, my email is monkey boy arts with A… At gmail dot com. So it’s pretty easy. Yeah, it’s pretty easy again, touching me, my phone number is 206-939-766-1. feel free to text or call me anytime, but if you bother me… Then you could get locked out.


Sure, sure, yeah.


But feel free to contact me. I really like to try and be as approachable and available as possible, and I wanna try and figure out a way to maintain that as I grow and become bigger, I feel that that’s something that I’ve always hated about every other successful person, an entrepreneur, that they’re just not accessible on any level at all, if you’re someone, unless they notice you, and I’d really like to kinda change that in some creative way.


Yeah, and I think that that’s actually very valuable because there’s a lot of people who are up and coming, I have great ideas who haven’t kind of broken through the ice yet, but they’re still looking at you and saying, Well, you’re further ahead than they are, so they’d like that advice and that consultant of kind of approach and exactly what you’re saying is true, you try and reach out to some people that are extremely famous in, it’s like, Man, I cannot reach these people at all.


Yeah, yeah, so one of the things I’m actively doing right now is looking for someone who I’m gonna kinda bring on as a personal assistant, my right-hand person.


So that as I grow, I can always be finding new ways to make sure that I’m connecting with absolutely. Everyone who needs my help and information, and I’m always gonna put the most importance on that over profit and making money in my own pocket, because I see a massive amount of value long-term in that… Over short term.


Oh yeah, and it’s definitely looking at the right outcome, right in that outcome is helping people… At the end of the day, I can help people in a way that’s valuable, ultimately the money will come in, the business will grow and the people will be there, but if you help them from the beginning and always have that goal, I think… At least in my experience, it’s always worked out better that way than chasing some number for the most part, so… I agree with you for sure. Now, before you wrap everything up, is there anything else that you think any gems or nuggets that you can give people who are listening to this about the social space or a piece of advice maybe you can give them… Yeah, I would say start out with research, I think the number one thing, if you don’t know, if you feel still kind of lost even after this interview, is if you spend 15 to 60 minutes every single day researching something that you’re interested in, you will find success it’s, of course, you have to apply that information, you’re learning to some level, but if you’re learning every day and you’re applying that learned information, you’re gonna be successful, and it’s really… It takes a lot of pressure off sales and off the results when learning is the result that you’re most interested in, so I can learn something new, make Eros and feel super happy. And I think that’s really the most important thing versus I could make a big sale in a day, I still actually have a kind of a shitty day. So I think people should be focused on How do I create the most amount of happiness while creating the most amount of value at the same time, because I think they’re very much linked together.


Yeah, and that’s where I think a lot of people need to focus to use online right now, all these people who have great profiles, huge followings, then you hear in the news or something later that really their personal life is suffering because they’ve spent so much time focusing on these massive growth goals and not really what’s important to them at the deeper level, so I think that that’s a super valid point that you have there, and I really appreciate you taking the time on the day to talk about this, ’cause I think there’s a lot of people that could benefit from listening to what you have to say, and I really appreciate you coming on the show.


Yeah, I really appreciate you having me and let me share some of my ideas and information.


Absolutely, thank you so much.

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