If I could talk to somebody about why they should be doing lunch and learns and health fears and what they need to do, it’s kind of funny, the online courses, is this like new school type of marketing when it comes to booking these lunch as learning the health fairs, the biggest thing is that it’s remarkably old school, but you have to pick up the phone if you want to go and do a lunch and learn, if you wanna get invited to a health bar, you can’t just email, there’s not an online option at some point you have to pick up the phone and call these people. It just be like, Hey, we’d love to be involved in your program.

He, welcome back to The prospecting show. Today’s episode is brought to you by the wellness program expert.

Well, in this program expert is an online course that empowers healthcare providers and business owners to rapidly grow their practices, businesses and bottom lines to lunch and learn, and health fair wellness programs to learn more and get the free e-book Seven Steps to rapidly grow your business and get ready for Wellness program marketing. Head over to Wellness program, expert dot com. Enjoy the show.

Welcome back to The prospecting show. Let’s hear your background, kind of like where you started, where you came from, and send… How you got to where you’re at right now?

Alright, well, so I started my chiropractic practice back in 2008, and just had rose colored glasses, I was gonna get off to this great start, I tried a bunch of paid advertising, and I joked at the only thing I got out of that was a complex that I might be hideous, ugly, and hadn’t realized it, because I would throw all this money at Facebook and Google ads and radio and think like, Oh man, I’m gonna get a bunch of new patients and nothing would come of it. And so what I ended up with for the first three years in practice, I was stuck in this cycle of essentially doing screenings, which I hated… I mean, the low point in my memory was I actually did a screening outside of a sleep number store, probably two years into prac, having my own practice, I stood two Saturday mornings at the mall outside of the Sleep Number store and everybody thought I worked for the store, so I like, Hey, I’d be like, Hey, would you like a quick spine check? And these people would be like, Oh, we already bought one, we love it. Or they’d be like, We got one in the RV, we love it so much. And I was just like, I’m gonna tell you from an ego perspective, I felt like the Statue of Liberty person standing on the Liber outside of Liberty Tax. And I’m like, Are you kidding me? I spent eight years in school and 100-000, 135000 to stand in front of a sleep number store. This is awful.

Well, and that’s a common story now, I’ve heard with the graduating few years ago myself and talking to some people who’ve gone through two or three associate chips or two or three other programs with other doctors, everybody seems to have this mentality that when they come out, I was like, Oh, that’s gonna be the greatest thing ever, I’m gonna help a bunch of people, I’m gonna do really great things for the world, and then reality hits right for most people, and I like to your point, you had that low point where you probably will never forget that that actually happened to you, and it’s interesting ’cause it kind of changes people it… That mentality of you, where you came from and what you’re expecting is really not aligning with what’s actually happening, so after that happened to you… Where did you go after that?

Well, about three years in owning my own practice, I decided I was gonna start doing lunch and learns, and so I got out there and did my first one and people laughed, I had patient schedule it just one of the patients from the very first lunch and learn that I ever did still comes in, and I run the numbers, and his care alone is up, my case averages are pretty low actually, in general through my career, but he’s up at 4500, and so I spent a couple hundred dollars on a meal and that first patient… Has what, 20X? That number over a period of years.

So anyways, there was this trial and error period of trying to figure out how to do lunch and learn successfully. That first year, we did our first lunch or learn in October, we did three lunch learns, the second year we did 16. but by the next year, we had a system just running where we knew exactly what we needed to say to get into these businesses, and we actually did 50 lunch alerts and health fair. Is that third year? The fourth year we did 38, and that third year my income shot up 100000, we just had finally had enough patients where I could stop doing screenings. Staff retention went up, I got 100% out of debt. So it was fantastic.

Last four wards to, let’s say here, probably late 2017, and I found this podcast called the online course show, and these two guys were on… They’re just telling their stories about creating online courses, and after listening for a while, I became inspired that I did have this one thing that I had figured out how to do really well, and that’s how to pick up the phone and go out and get books for lunch and learns, and actually give a persuasive talk, and so I created a course on how to… How chiropractors can book Lunch and Learns and health bars.

Eventually, right now, it’s just for chiropractors, but I’m gonna be expanding it out to all the professions pretty soon here, and I… Yeah, it’s been off to a great start, I have people enrolled around the United States, I have a couple over in Australia, one guy up in Canada, so it’s off to a great start and people are having success getting out there and booking these learns, getting into health fairs, and then the interesting thing is that I now also actually become the co-host of that podcast on the online courses, so… Yeah, that’s a lot story. Well, we’ve come this far, so let’s hear it about the podcast itself, so what’s the name of the podcast, and then how can people find both the podcast and in the course that you’re putting out… Okay, yeah, so the podcast is called The Online Course show, and the original founder is named Jack Hopkins, and I’ll tell the story, the two guys that were on there at the beginning, when I listened to this, I was just laughing out loud, these guys are really inspiring and I would encourage anybody just to go back to the start of this, but this Jack Hawkins was an engineer, but his hobby was playing piano, and he had learned to play piano in the way that Dueling pianos do in the sense that they know the cords, they don’t know every single note, but they know the cords and they can read… They’re called guitar tabs, and they just play so they can play thousands of songs that way, he created a course called piano and 21 days. And at the start of the podcast, he was doing 30 000 a month in teaching people piano around the world, and so then at the start of the show, the first 20 episodes are him mentoring this other guy named Nate dots and… And so, Nate Dodson was… He’s kind of the laid back hippie guy, but also very motivated, but he was an urban farmer over in Indiana, and as he was getting his urban farm started, he had found his most predictable and most successful crop was what are called micro-greens, which are basically… If you think of a sprout, a sprout, if you buy those in the store, it’s still gonna have the roots, a micro green is a sprout where it’s cut off about the roots. But this Nate Dodson had created a course on how to grow and sell micrograms, really teaching people to business strategies, so at the first 20, but so it’s the piano guy is coaching the micro-greens guy.

What was kind of funny, I had my wife listen to the show and two days later, she was like a much…

I was like, Are we gonna hang out tomorrow night? And she said, Actually, I’m watching a webinar, ended up watching the show about the micro-greens, and next thing I know, she is now a micro-greens farmer and house on micro-greens business.

Wow, the piano guy has a course on how to make online courses, and so eventually I bought that for 700.He now actually offers, is essentially for free, but that’s… I just followed his formula and it worked right.

And was that, in your mind, taking that plunge from just purely clinical work in the online course work, where do you think that the stumbling points are for most clinicians if they wanted to go out there and create a course and what they do or create something? Another business or another income stream, where are the challenging parts in that transition?

Well, I would say the first thing is just like the belief that you can do it, the second thing is the actual technology, but we just live in this… It’s the golden age of entrepreneurship in the sense that there are 100 different places that you can host your course for free or for virtually free, you got access where you can target the people that are interested in what you want to… So I, I… And so I would just encourage people, Go listen to the podcast.

I think I… My first episode that I was featured on his episode 1-06.But just go back to the beginning and the story of these two guys, the piano guy in the micro green is hilarious. is inspiring.

It obviously motivated me.

And yeah, I mean, whether… So I would say the pool should consider making an online course, if you actually can teach people within your field something new, that’s one way to do it, but also I… Let’s say You’re a chiropractor and you wanna considered the authority in your community, in the same way that historically people would say like, Oh, if you wanna be viewed as an expert, write a book, it’s like everybody out there has the ability to make an online course in their pocket, an iPhone 10, really an iPhone 6, could make an online course, it’s everything you need, and so, yeah, there’s no excuses if if you wanna make an online course, it just goes out to your community and just established a… An expert, there’s really no barrier to it… Well, and that’s kind of the point that you’re make before, I guess, what the golden age is like now that there’s so much opportunity with it, just in general, there’s really no excuse and barriers for anybody to do anything, you could literally have a phone and a laptop and an arena connection and basically build a business from scratch… Right.

And a lot of people, I still think I fall back to like, Oh, it’s too difficult, takes a lot of money, takes a lot of time. And really the only currency you have to trade right now is time, that you don’t need a lot of money to start an online course. Would you agree with that?

Yeah, yeah, I… It’s pretty easy, right? You just jump, jump right into it in kinda to your point, if you wanna have that authority type process for them, it’s really… I’m not that difficult, ’cause you build the course, you cast out to the people who are in the market and you create value beyond the cost of the actual product, and typically they will buy that… Right, exactly. And you can just… We have all these ways just to ask people like, What are you struggling with, and then you just… You solve their struggles. So it’s incredible just how much information you can get and how you… And then let’s say that your first version of the course doesn’t answer their top concern, recorded another video, and all of a sudden your course is a step more complete to exactly what these people need.

And when someone starting out to build a course, do you typically recommend that they build a certain amount of content before they release it, or do they dynamically add to this course as time goes on?

Well, that’s a big thing. A lot of the course experts would say, before you invest a bunch of money and a bunch of time in this, you would wanna create a Facebook group where it’s focused on a specific topic, so I don’t know, just as an abstract example, let’s say care of hamsters, so you create this space, but group around hamster care, and everybody that joins the group, you ask them What’s your top… What’s the top thing that you have questions about within that group, once you got 100 or maybe even less people, you just say, Okay, I’m gonna teach a live session, you could do it for free, but do it live for the first time with that group and get their feedback, or have them pay just a small amount to be a part of that beta… Beta version of the course.

Now, personally, I had no experience making videos, I was actually still somewhat shy, and so I made the majority of the course before I did any kind of marketing like that, and the idea of pre-selling a course, it just was outside my comfort level, quite frankly, and I think a lot of guys like Dan Henry and gray, ultimate course creator guys, they talk about doing exactly what you’re saying you weren’t comfortable with, which is really doing that pre-cell… No cell model, where it’s like you have an idea, but you don’t have a course, but you sell it to prove that people want the course, and then you launch it in like three months or something like that, with pre-sale money that you’ve created, and that’s a bit of a pun, it’s really… You’re punting that up in the air, and you’re hoping that by the time the ball comes back down, you’re gonna catch it on the other side, and that’s just a dangerous place to live for a lot of people who are starting out because the fast way to kill entrepreneurship is to do something that not only fails, failure is not really a big thing, but failing in a way that… This is a lot of people off. Right, sure, those people are gonna look at you and go, I’m not trusting this guy again, because he’s done X, Y, Z, and he’s not really reliable… Especially the very first thing that’s done.

You know what I mean? There’s just no way you have to have something useful, which is probably why your approach is better, and in my opinion that you maybe don’t have the whole thing complete, but what you do have is an idea of what needs to be done in the steps that need to be done to get there.

So you build it out, you do a little bit of it, you test it, you sell it, and then you kind of build on to the course and keep talking these extra pieces on as time goes on.

Sure, well, and it also just depends if you already have an audience and you’re already comfortable making quality videos, then yeah, I would say that’s where you do the pre-sell the course, and if it’s gonna come out fine for me making the course… Well, as a learning experience, I learned about how to make quality videos, how to capture good sound, and so the making of the course made it, so then when I make promotional videos, now they actually look nice, and so some of the worst looking videos are buried within the course, but the content’s there, but now when I make a promotional video, at least I have the quality down… Yeah, and I think it’s a good point to talk about quality, and I think there’s also the quantity aspect of it, to you… I don’t know how many other guys you fall in line there in the marketing space, but there’s… Frank Curran, have you heard of him before?

I haven’t.

Okay, so he works with Grant Cardone and a few of those guys over there, and he’s like a master guru online marketer guy, and he has absolutely no digital kind of like quality graphics.

He’ll put up a post that’s like literally a blue background with one website URL, and he’s like, If you wanna buy more stuff or get people to buy your stuff, visit this link, and he’ll get 150 000 people to go fill out that form.

And it’s literally nothing, it’s basically one page with one link, and it’s really interesting because he talks a lot about intend-based branding, which is if you create enough value when you go out for the people who are gonna buy between the next three and nine months, you’ll have a lot better chance because there’s only a small portion of people are ready to buy today, and that’s true of chiropractic as well, there’s a lot of people who wait until they absolutely think they need chiropractic, it fell down the blue desk, they do whatever it is, and they wait until that exact time to go get care, as opposed to trying to take a more preventative approach, but then once those people understand the value of it, they’ll come back around, and the reason I say that that’s kind of a synergy on both sides is because if you’re able to teach people that learning upfront and creating… Upfront is the way to go. I think there’d be one, a lot better course quality that’s out there, and two, there’s a lot of industry experts that could share their knowledge.


You know what I mean? So in your mind, when you create these courses, do you have a specific length or a specific kind of focus that you spend your time around?

I would say not really, it’s just… It’s all about the transformation, it’s how quickly can I take somebody that has no experience doing lunch and learns and health fairs and get them where they’re proficient, they’re competent to pick up the phone, but the event… So my course is deep, but then in it, it has a 30-day action plan with everything that the actual business owner does, and then also if there’s gonna be a different person, like picking up the phone and actually making these outreach type calls, it’s like they have their action steps for the week, they have a weekly meeting, and then at the end of 30 days, it’s like they’re just up and running, so it’s… My course is broad, but then it has a very specific action plan and is your course… How long is it something that’s… Five weeks, six weeks. I don’t know if you answer that before, but how long is the actual content of the course? Once a person is enrolled, they could access to all the content, but the encouragement would be just to print out this one-page action plan, and just that’s like the bare minimum of what they need to do to be… The course is called ones program Expert, so it’s just it 30 days from no, no, learn in healthcare marketing to being a wellness program expert, and then they can always up level from there, they can add in different variations of sending a massage therapist out. They can add more talks, and I teach them how to create their own persuasive talks, but the whole goal is just like, Let’s simplify this and get you out there doing these things that have success and that are quite frankly fun to do an effective… And for the people that are thinking about doing a course… Right, so you have a court… If I understand that Oracle, you have a course that’s about how to create a course, is that correct?

Now, in the… Now, the Jack Hopkins, the piano, the piano guy I mentioned, so he has no and 21 days, which is how to learn to play piano and 21 days, but then he has… It’s called the online course accelerator. And essentially, if you go to the online course guy dot com and click on the courses, or how can I help you?

The way that he has it set up is that you would basically pay for shipping for a copy of experts Secrets by Russel Brunson.

Okay, and then he would give you access to the same course while a newer version of the course that I paid 70 for, so for 7, you get access to this course is like everything you need to know.

Oh, and that will pretty much take someone through the process of coming up in an idea, formulating the idea of selling the course, making the course and all the pieces around it.

Everything. Yeah, exactly. And then mine is, mine is, if you’re a chiropractor currently in the future, acupuncturist therapist, lawyer, real estate agent, it’s like, Okay, I’ve never gone out and given a talk in public, what do I need to do to out and provide value in a local business near me, and are these kind of group talk environments where you go into a local business and you talk to 10, 15 people out of time, or is this more of a one-to-one kind of program… No, no, the Lunch and Learn is going out, groups anywhere from five to 60 people and essentially either providing a lunch or you can do a broad back lunch and just bring some high-end cupcakes and… Yeah, giving talks anywhere between… It could be as short as like a 10-minute talk up to… The main ones that I give were up at 35 or 40 minutes, and just people watching feel like they’re watching a stand-up comic, they have a blast, they come up afterwards, they’re… That was amazing. And then obviously, we wanna be persuasive in the sense of getting these people in the mindset of like, Yeah, let’s find out what’s going on inside my body.

And so this is the opportunity for them to learn, in your case, about chiropractic and how that could help, and so ideally you’re doing the talk to both educate them on why they need to be involved with that, but then also there’s some conversion opportunity… Right, the whole goal is to get them to get involved with your practice.

Exactly. Yeah, got it.

It’s super effective. It’s old school. If I could talk to somebody about why they should be doing lunch and learns and health fairs and what they need to do, it’s kind of funny, the online courses is, is like new school type of marketing when it comes to booking these lunch and learning the health fair is the biggest thing is that it’s remarkably old school, but you have to pick up the phone if you want to go and do a lunch and learn, if you wanna get invited to a health fair, you can’t just email, there’s not an online auction at some point, you have to pick up the phone and call these people and just be like, Hey, we’d love to be involved in your program, and there’s some other things that need to be there where they are like, Wow, this sounds like a great idea, but I… Yeah, so we go and give a talk, there’s a few key things in our talks that just make it a blast, so the story behind that actually for the majority of my career, the talk that I was giving required a lot of memorization, and occasionally people would actually fall asleep. When I was gonna create the course, I was like, I have to up-level this to… I want anybody that joins my course do not have to memorize it, and then I just want it to be super fun and engaging, and it kind of… It is, and I’m like having this thought, we actually were booked to do a lunch and learn for a Montessori school, so you’re familiar with montessori school? Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

So it’s super experiential type of learning, they’re not gonna be just lecturing at the chalkboard, the kids are gonna be counting sticks out in the school yard and stuff, and that’s how they learn math, and so I’m like, Alright, I gotta make my talk just like experiential as possible, I don’t want it to be a talk, I wanted to be an experience, and so the key things that we’ll do, number one, it needs to have tons of like questions. So at the start of the talk, I’m telling people like, I’m gonna ask questions, I need you guys just to… Yellow answers. Let’s make it super fun.

The second thing is stories, anytime you start telling a story, people’s ears perk up, tell personal stories, other stories, and then also just fun analogies, so just really making people get the idea in a way that just resonates with them.

So if you’d like, I’ll go ahead and tell a quick part of my presentation that highlights those three parts… Absolutely, I definitely hear that.

Alright, so alright, let’s imagine for a second that we’re here in Connor’s office, and so we’re in the kitchen, and so Cantor likes a big Rita for lunch. So he’s micron, this big Brito, and then sue from the front desk, she’s over there, she likes to make this giant green smoothie for lunch, so she’s got the blender running, and then Joe, Joe, the PT Assistant, he likes to make these really stinky to… To fish sandwiches with hard-boiled eggs on them stinks out the entire office, but he likes him on toast, and so he’s over the toaster, pushes the button down on the toaster, and all of a sudden all three of these things just stop working.

What are you gonna do?

What would you do color?

Probably it’s power. It sounds like… Yeah, yeah, you get… Yeah, you go check the few is right.


Alright, so why won’t you run down to Walmart, all murdered Target and get some new appliances, ’cause they’re not the issue… They’re not the problem.

So that’s exactly right. So the reason you’re able to say that is you have a basic understanding of the wiring of your office, your body has a wiring system as well, it’s the nerves, your brain is up at the top trying to control everything, and if it can’t get clear messages through the nerves, a true carrying electrical signals, then it doesn’t work, and so then I’d have a of the nerve system of the body, and I just go on from there, I’d say, so look at this map here. You guys all have this sitting out in front of you, let’s say somebody has right shoulder pain, left elbow pain, right hand pain, what’s the fuse that controls that region on… They look at it, they say, Oh, it’s a lower neck, and I’m like, Exactly.

So I… Yeah, so that’s question stories, fun analogies. The other thing that’s super fun, we do tons of demonstrations, so we do a little part where I talk about how pain doesn’t work like I was like You think it would… So it seems like little problems should have a little pain, major problems should have major pain, but you stop and think like a heart attack and cancer, they don’t have any pain until they’re crisis level, and then I would have… I would say little problems can cause major pain, and I’d like to have one of the managers come up front, have them take off a shoe, and I’d say, I’m gonna have you stand on something, it’s not gonna draw blood, do any permanent damage.

And then I pull out of my pocket like a Lego.

And I… So just put… People just crack up. If you think about a stand-up comic, if they ever start to talk to somebody in the audience, everybody starts paying attention.

Right, right.

You captivate them. That’s the part that I think a lot of people miss, at least in chiropractic and other healthcare small businesses, is they’re really good at what they do from a technical standpoint in their job, but they’re not very good at explaining what they do, they can’t convey that message and what you’re talking about is an easy way to kinda bridge that gap between patients and providers is in a small business environment where you have a chiropractic office, maybe you have three or four staff members, maybe you have a huge practice and you got lots of staff members, but the bottom line is, it’s not a mega enterprise, so every single person along the pathway really needs to be involved with understanding what chiropractic is, what the services that they’re offering. Just kinda go from there.

Exactly, yeah, the last thing we’re just looking to just do surprises for people and have tons of laughter, so picture you’re up front, you’re teaching people just a few stretches for them to take away, and you have one where they have their arms up by their year, they’re just doing like a standing back bend with the arms up at their years and you have your system in the back and she starts playing YMCA and you just own a spontaneous dance party in like the middle of the talk, it’s like… Yeah, got hold.

Or just like, No, yeah, they’re aged. That’s the part, ’cause everyone’s so used to having these educational powers stand up front with the chakra, the white board, I guess now and going through the process, this is what happens, this is how you can fix it, this… All the different pieces that everyone gets bored up, but if you have that more interactive approach, either in an online course or in a in-person, it really is like a course, right, you’re doing a presentation and you’re educating people, if you have that kind of tonality and that energy and excitement around what you’re doing, people are probably gonna remember that, and there’s also an affinity for people to go towards those individuals that have a great kind of state, write a great kind of a personality, and so to kind of wrap this all back together, with your course, how could people find it and then recommendations do you have for people who want… Who are considering getting something like your course, what should they be considering ahead of time before they dive in?

Well, so essentially define it, you could go to Wellness program expert dot com. Originally, I did brand the courses 20 calls per week, chiropractic marketing, which I had a nice little logo and stuff, but the reality is that’s kind of like the least fun part of this program. Again, in my program, I teach you how to go out and just do talks at 10 health fairs and actually have a blast it picking up the phone isn’t fun, but it’s also not as bad as you might think, but essentially what they would need to consider is just… If you have all the strategies as far as how to pick up the phone and go out and deliver a talk, like are you going to do it?

Obviously, I don’t want somebody to join my course and just not take action, but other than that, I feel like I can take somebody, even somebody that’s like… It just has zero confidence in public speaking, everything is set up in a way that makes that person comfortable and confident. Interestingly, I actually had true panic attacks about public speaking back when I was 21 and 22, I actually had to go to Toastmasters during chiropractic school. So yeah, if I can do it, anybody can.

Yeah, and I think the key for people is when the fear of doing these public speaking events or just disengagement with the public becomes less than your fear of not growing your business, you’ll eventually do it right, ’cause pains kinda gonna guide you in that direction, we… You’re gonna say, Listen, I really don’t like public speaking, but I really wanna get the message of chiropractic out there, or acupuncture, whatever it is, your professional services, when you decide that you’re sector to be in second tier, you’ll probably change it.

Exactly, and you highlight another thing that whole start with why the people with the most success with this truly do believe that the people sitting in the audience are going to end up with unnecessary surgeries, they’re gonna end up… What is it? The average person over 65 is on 14 medicines. So when you’re standing up there, you do wanna be in that mindset like, I’m here as a hero, I’m here to save these people from unnecessary medicines and just a life where they don’t get to be out and be active.

Well, I, I really appreciate you coming on the show and I was been a pretty short segment, but then we hit a lot of heavy points here, I appreciate your time and all of the value provided on creating a course.

Yeah, thanks otter, I appreciate the opportunity to have an awesome day.

You too.

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