A lot of times, some people see, may not be the right thing for them, so we first of all, do a customer discovery call, we’re gonna ask, but all the problems, what kind of market they’re serving, figure out the problems they have, is it like of traffic or is it traffic already there with our competing… If it’s that most of the time, it’s just that they’re not targeting the right audience, I… Now, when we create content or when we’re trying to do SEO, we always focus on the customer journey, leading edge SEO is a full-service online marketing agency, rankings are great, the conversions are better.

That is why I so focuses on converting your traffic into paying customers, I… SEO has helped countless businesses grow by connecting them with their ideal customers, whether it’s B2B or B2C, ISO can help you increase your sales in revenue by bringing new customers you aspire to work with, so will help customers discover you in an extremely noisy online client world and make sure you stand out from your competitors, specializing in conversion rate optimization, CR. So paid ads, online PR and social media marketing, Ellis-O has a solution for you.

You can visit them online at We Elle SOTA and follow them on Instagram at leading edge a CEO to enjoy the show.

Welcome back to The prospecting show. Today we have a salad. Muhammad on the call, how are you?

So how are you interesting in a…

Oh, good. So to start things, or I know you have a little bit of unique story, so let’s kind of let the listeners know where you came from, and then also maybe a little bit a story about what you were just telling me prior to the podcast here… Sure, absolutely. So my name is salad and I went to university for pre-med… Well, my background is Pakistani, so as brides, we don’t have many options growing up at in the… Becoming a doctor, engineer, or a lawyer. So I took that top, the traditional path of going through pre-med, and the time I was done, I really hated it, and having a lot of doctors in the family… I personally like that lifestyle. Did the stress that came with it, the laws that come with it, and I just decided to go another out at the end of university. A few of my friends, they were in the marketing world and they had an SEO agency at the time, back in ness, he used to be a joke that anybody could do it. It was really, really easy.

I was always in fine by it, however, then after university, I did a bunch of sales jobs, worked at the mall, stuff like that, starting a cleaning company, believe it or not, and that actually did pretty well. We created a business out of it, and I learned how to do a little bit of SEO at the time for myself in the cleaning business, then when I was on the cleaning business, I didn’t have that company for two to long… Just under a year, and then I started… Why? I was doing a clinic business, I had a lot of spare time in my… Has most of the cleaning jobs there at night, so I would work for no salary, just pure commission-based, so sales job for a marketing agency in Toronto, and I got good at selling. They promoted me to an account manager, I learned a little bit more about house search, had been evolving over the past years, and then when I saw that that company specifically wasn’t doing… Most of the companies, they weren’t really focusing on what matter could business order as the most ice to that, that was a place where I could capitalize and then started my own marketing agency two years ago.

Wow, and… And so what made you do that pivot payment for what?

Well, you’ve done a couple of different things, right? You started in school and then you kind of Pitt… You said you did the clean stuff and then you pivoted to the… So, so why though?

Yeah, so I looked at it and I know that one business, so I really liked sales. When I was in university, I sold… I work at the mall Selling cell phones and cell phone plans at those kiosks, and I really enjoyed selling… Even though it’s a very small ticket item, this sound like you’re making six figures on that, but I really enjoyed selling II also sold the windows and doors, that’s a little higher ticket item. It was a different kind of challenge. And one thing that I realized is, marketing also was something that always intrigued me, but I was informally trained, I didn’t go to school for marketing or stuff like that, and I looked at what would be something that’s always going to be in business, and looking at how… We evolve in the 21 century where things are going more and more paperless, and I just thought that this will be an opportunity that if I get into it, it’s going to be there for the long run.

I started… That’s why I started doing sales for an SEO company, and I really enjoyed it, I actually enjoyed the sales process of that too, and I just got really hooked into it, and then I… With the emerging on social media and stuff like that, online marketing is gonna be here for a very, very long time, and I just thought that this would be a great opportunity for me to jump on and capitalize on, and what makes you guys different with your service there’s a lot of service providers, either in the marketing space, the SEO space, M space, and there’s always this differentiator like, Hey, what do we do differently, what is it that you think you guys do differently that other individuals or companies or agencies don’t do?

Sure, great question. And what I pride myself for is that we are a relict, so I know a name, it’s got the word so in it, but I like to call myself a conversion rate optimization agency, S-M… Can I toss on this, by the way… Yeah, yeah, yeah. Or I may give it about rankings as much as they care about conversions, so many of the companies out there, they’re so focused on, Okay, we got your ranking for this keyword of this, the term, but we don’t really give it about that, and the reality is, our clients to get in about that either because who cares if you’re number one for a keyword, but if you’re not getting the right conversions, then what’s really the point of a converting into dollars, that’s our most important thing is how do we optimize conversions?

And most of the clients we get now, when we started off, of course, it was just me doing everything a lot, so I got really smart times, but now the kind of clients we get… Or Cristi already have a bunch of traffic. We just… We’re trying to figure out how we can convert and optimize the pages to get conversions, be it sign-ups, be it form fellows, or just getting people to pick up the phone and dial, those are the problems that we really enjoyed the most.

Yeah, and that’s a good point because there are a lot of people who look at just purely ranking and we… Right. ranking in itself is not that critical if it doesn’t convert, but the interesting thing is that if you have an e-commerce type website as opposed to a local business, I think that ultimately becomes a numbers game at are you optimized for the right keyword? Are you optimized for something that matters in the industry, and ultimately do you have a decent page that they’re going to, that they’re gonna convert on, right, because it… If you’re on, let’s say you are a local business, well, ranking for chiropractor in my area, or barber in my area, right? Those are gonna be valuable things, ’cause someone’s active looking for a barber, they’re probably not gonna mess up spelling that, and they’re looking for a near them that’s probably gonna convert regardless of what kind of website you have, probably right.

Yes and no, sometimes websites or I look at it, if they’re so poly done it, whether it not secure enough or whether there’s not a conversion action that they will get a few people… What we’re trying to do is we’re trying to get as many conversions as possible, that for example, we just have a large fencing company, they’re all over the service all over Ontario, and they get tens of thousands of visitors on their blog post, which is great, who ever created those pieces of content is, it’s great content, we’ll get me wrong, and it’s ranking them for really some really interesting key words that are query-based, but I guess let me… Conversions are getting out of those, probably not many, but zero, ’cause we set up conversion tracking or like, Okay, these guys are reading and you just look at their app analytics, you see that you get tens of thousands of people on these blog posts that they have beautiful amazing blog post that they have, but okay, what’s happening though? The drop-offs are just insane, 87% drop of 95% of scalpel real.

They’re reading the content, but there’s nothing else that’s driving that there’s nobody holding their hand to tell them, Okay, he… Now, I want you to click on the call, but I… We have other problems, for example, we work with a company that does business security solution, again, a huge company based in the Kitchener-Waterloo area, and they have 100, so I think on one page especially, they had 30-3000 searches, the 200st every single month. On this one walks again, grabs that talks about what are the security laws in Ontario for putting up a camera, which is great, but their traffic ironically was coming mostly from the US, and their complaint was most of the calls were getting were just people asking us about technical things about what to do, how to put up there so they’re already… When on business transactions, that’s the thing is, it’s not something that we at business… Exactly, it’s just the wrong… So I can be racing for something, but are you attracting the right audience for that piece of content that you put out there? Those are things that we look into. And ultimately, what we did is we just redirected that post to the contact page and guess for all of a sudden result, okay, more informed for loads because a lot of those people who cares if there wasn’t giving us any conversions, you don’t care if they search for that what we need ended up redirecting them, created a new blog post then, well, well, you know this was going on much better, a little bit more information, more localized for Canada as opposed to the US, and God that traffic to come on that blog post redirected them there, and then all of us had ever seeing, Oh, okay, less drop-offs who are people feeling out the contact form, more people calling the business and getting… Booking appointments.

Well, and that’s the critical piece, right, is a lot of people are trying to figure out how to get a just a pure conversion online, to fill it, a form, but really the conversions to the phone, and then the Convention from the phone is the next step, which is ultimately the thing, person office or a visit of some type, or a line of the product or the service, because of the date, you’re gonna spend 2, 3, four, 5 1000 a month. And so you’re gonna wanna have not just opportunity to talk to people, but opportunity… It’s gonna close.

Absolutely, so let… Do you guys… Once beyond that, do you guys have a system in place where you kinda talk about to clients like, Hey, this is what you should do, this is what you shouldn’t do, how do you actually get people understanding that stuff?

So how we do that is… So first of all, we’ll be like to do… We don’t just take anybody on, okay, first of all is a lot of times, some people, so may not be the right thing for them, and so we first of all, do a customer discovery call with… We’re gonna ask some on all their problems, what kind of the market they’re serving, figure out the problems they have, is it like of traffic or is it traffic already there, but they’re converting… If it’s that most of the time, it’s just that they’re not targeting the right audiences now, when we create content or when we’re trying to do SEO, we do, whether we have a phenomenal team, we always focus on the customer journey as opposed to just getting rankings, but actual customer journey. So would somebody all be actually typing in terms of what keywords are gonna be typing that are actually gonna result into conversions, and then we divide those keywords into long tail keywords and then into money keywords, which are keywords that are… For example, that he worked from the lawyer, Toronto…

I work with one of the largest criminal law firm to Toronto, that’s a keyword that on average, my client pays 120 bucks a click for a 100, except it’s a super, super competitive… Now, somebody comes up to me and told me, Oh, or… But cilantro, by the way, we offer an on-compete, so in this case, we’re not gonna work with any of our clients to our competitors, but in men, say if somebody wants to be like, Okay, I wanna also rank at this market, how can I help Alltel them straight up demand, you know what, this is not gonna work for you. Maybe you should go on other out… Maybe you should focus solely on the organic side of things, but it’s gonna take you a really, really, really long time, it will, for sure, ’cause there’s thousands of other people that are out there hiring a bunch of people like myself, a lot of other companies like fine, and trying to get or trying to out-rank each other, it really depends, penury, a lot of times, if it’s a lot of traffic, they not converting, it’s mostly because they’re targeting the wrong audiences, but a lot of times we also get people who just don’t have good traffic at all. And then depending on whether the type of business, whether it’s a really, really local business or whether they’re a nationwide company, we will offer them, you know, specific solutions.

Gotcha, and do you find that most of the customers are re-investing more of a budget as time goes on because of competition, or do you find that the competition goes down once the anchor and a keyword, like what do you see in spend-wise across the different clients, you have… So we see that most of our customers, once they’re on, they usually stick… You stick with us.

There’s always gonna be some prints and aren’t gonna stick around just because either it’s a budget issue or it’s just time you… They’re trying different things, but most of our clients, they stick around and they end up investing more… Really getting their confidence, it’s in the first month or two, if you can show them results, and that’s as an agency, we pour in a lot of our resources into doing a lot of outreach, a lot of press releases, getting a lot of back links. Upfront, we do all that work up front so that we… We see the results right away. And then when they see those results is easier to have manager expectations as the time goes on, so I’ve noticed that… Yes, for most of my clients, either they’ll stick around, he’ll invest the same amount of money, but for the most part, I would say it was 70% of my clients…

Well, if I talk to them and explain to them, because the prices of Google answers also going up with time, they understand that they’ve already seen that it, A, it pays off pays back, so then they’ll increase the price accordingly, and when you’re finding the price of keywords going up, do you typically recommend that a client switches over to another keyword or not, or more, or going to long tail keyword as opposed to a short or what is the step to trying to bring that case… The position down.

It all depends, it all depends on… Every month, one of the things we’d like to do is we always analyze what kind of search results Google is showing for keyword, now Google as then they’re doing a lot of dirty things to these days, which is if you go on Google out right now, and dentist a few were to put any keyword out there, for example, a chiropractor in Pennsylvania, back in the dead, used to be very bold in yellow, and you knew it wasn’t a right away, people used to skip it, go, Google is so shamelessly they camouflage their admittance of trying to make them look like organic listings, by making… By making the ad at and over there, but it’s all white, so you won’t be able to less contrast between an organic and a one or a… Exactly, so what we’d like to do is we like to look at, Okay, with every keyword, we like to look at what kind of result is Google showing, sometimes it could be a featured step in, and then if it’s a feature step it… We’ve noticed that the trend is that we’re gonna see this feature stamped for the next few months, it’ll probably be around there for a while, we’ll try to create content on our client’s websites that will be for… Usually, I like to keep it 40 to 160 words long, that’s there on the home page to answer ascertain query or asserting key, whatever that question is for that keyword, and hopefully trying to get into the feature tipped, try to get me some rankings over there, but again, it all depends on what kind of query isn’t, whether it’s going to come, Verano, do we invest our time and that… And the faculty… What kind of ads is to go… Showing his Google, showing a lot of, you know, admissions for a key words, then we might wanna focus mostly on Google ads because they’re the puppet master, they get to decide how many as you know to show up for a certain keyword, or if not, then we’ll decide on, Okay, sometimes you’ve been… Sites like Cora have really a lot of traction behind a certain core, so we will go on Cora and we’ll try to put, answer that question over there, and try to link to our clients website or create a piece of content that answers that question and then link that on Cora, so that people that see that thing answered over there, they can actually go hit up that blog post from there and hopefully get them to convert.

And is that more of a back-linking technique that you’re doing there, like an organic technique, or would you consider that to some other type of technique that you’re doing for the containing… Because a great question, by the way, one, so back linking works when it’s not a social media website with big websites like Facebook or a Twitter or LinkedIn or any of the social media websites, they’re not considered back links and how… We know that is, if you ever go into the back end as the hyper-links, they’re all tagged with the folate, and that means you… No, you don’t get any credit for that. Or when Google is looking at it, so no, it’s not, but however many studies have shown that social signals… So the more social signals you have, the more chances you are for your page or your content, whatever to pop up in the ranking.

Gotcha, okay, and so basically what you’re saying is that Back linking is not really a possibility when you’re using a big social platform, so the bee think’s gonna exist between two standard organic websites or between maybe another bigger website that’s not like a classified or social platform, it just has to be void of those… No followed tags come. Right, exactly. So for example, if, let’s say we’re working… I know you’re a chiropractor, so I’m gonna get this example, let’s say in a chiropractic business, and they want a back thing, a backing coming from the men’s health dot com talking about how to keep a healthy posture, or why it’s important to get a pack or adjustments or anything of that sort, that would be a bacnet, and that would have a lot of way in Google is because it’s coming from a very authoritative website that’s in that similar niche back in the day when I eat what I was introduced to. So in my college days, it was the Wild West where literally you could just go get thanks from anywhere, create a fake random black pages and just link anywhere, Google living care, you would still get the link equity for that.

But now Google, smart enough to know that if, let’s say, for example, your website as a chiropractor, if it’s getting a lot of links from, let’s say, I don’t know, a mechanic or a repair shop or a repair shop related stuff, Google not… Those are probably links that have been for purchase and have really no value behind them, but if you were to get even the fuel links coming from authoritative websites in that niche that has an organic relationship, then Google would put a lot or waiter to that. And you will see an improvement in ratings because backlinks still today are the largest ranking factor till they… Right, right. So given that, then to kind of wrap things up here and talk about the actual utility of what you’re doing, first of all, how can people reach you?

So you can go on our website, it’s sea leading edge, so that a… ’cause we’re from Canada, what we serve is clients all over the globe, mostly the United States in Canada, but we also have some clients in the Middle East, but yeah, so I’m reachable there. You can reach me on LinkedIn and grain and yeah, you can call me, you can see our contact based a lot, our form, or give me a call, shoot us an email to… Yeah, all that stuff.

Awesome, and then as the last take-away point, if somebody is preparing to spend money on paid ads or even organic, so they’re really trying to dive into the space that you’re in, what kind of questions should they be asking a vendor… Like what’s the number one thing they should be asking… To make sure they’re gonna get the result.

So you’re talking iTunes order?

Yes. Okay, so a business under to the number one thing, they should be really focused about this conversions more than being hung up on ranking or just hung up on… For example, if the person you’re talking to recommend that Google Ads may be a better avenue for you instead of organic SEO, give you love thought, Don’t just shut it out completely. The amount of times I hear business owners that tell me, Oh no, it’s the most ignorant thing they say when they say, Oh no, I don’t wanna give my money to Google, like, What the hell is that supposed to room… But if you’re in the business where most of your competitors are using Google Ads, trust me, there would be a very good reason. I’ll give you an example.

For example, one of my clients, they’re a coin company, and believe it or not, we spent over 10 grand a month on chest ads, and same argument with him, try to explain to him that you are working in an industry that’s a very emergency-based service.

Can I… Your customers are gonna be scrolling down to look up who’s got the best website and stuff like that, they’re more of a landing page-oriented website where you just have a need to have a good lineage, Ting enough information for numbers right there on the customer’s face and whoever they’re gonna see on the top of the page when they’re stuck on the road, and their business company is a Canadian company, when it’s really, really cold, they’re just gonna click on the person or the phone number of the person who’s there on the top on their screen, so you’re organic as you really… Even though they pay for… Again, I use, but it was really led to literally less than 1% conversion space, we get most of our business just through Google Ad, so what I will say someone trying to look into that number one thing, don’t have any… Because business owners, you guys are specialists in your own thing, let the only marketers deal with that stuff and you go to a doctor, you let the doctor tell you what the problem is. Not the other way around, right?

So it’s that same thing when someone tells you or if you have a reputable company telling you, Okay, you might wanna just do this, or You might wanna do social media, or you might wanna skip organic is all together and just focus on Google that hayato, give it some attention, and for all those people that say that SEO is that… I will say that’s because to as always gonna hear out, and regardless of whether voice goes up, our patents goes up, as long as people are ready to pay for traffic… It’s always gonna work.

Well, I appreciate you being here on the prospecting show, kind of sharing everything you got with drop your links at the end of this when we publish it in the edited, just listen to this episode and kick it. Have a great day, thank you so much. And

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