Alright, welcome back to The prospecting show. Today is July 70th, and we have Justin ODSP and scary Williams on the call. How are you guys?


The good man, are you?


Awesome, thank you so much. I get the name right, just in… I know we were trying to get that, but we got it had… Now on on head, Justin ogas.


I turn, I go there. You got so everybody that listen to prospecting Tierra-ly now, there’s parts to it, there’s the past, the present in the future, but because you guys have a pretty deep history it, you guys have had two different companies and sounds like you’re doing a merger now too.


Let’s talk a little bit about me. I will go to Zac first, give us the background, like where you started and how you got to today, and then we’ll jump over and we’ll go to adjust.


Yeah, so my start was back in 2016, I was working in the oil and gas industry, and I was consulting for a big oil and gas companies, marathon shall be traveling all over the US, and I always knew I wanted to do something entrepreneurship related.


And being a general contractor, in my opinion was been… Was it being an entrepreneur is just making a lot of money, but I’ve always been SaaS driven, that’s my bet, my objective, and I had an idea for a machine learning AI power marketing tool, and instead of just creating another idea and jotting it down, I always done in the past, I decided to go the marketing agency and actually learn the problem is out.


So that was the development of buckles digital. Everything was built on the premise of my mentality, you create drone luck, and that’s how buckles got its name, it’s branding.


And then from there, it was just an iterative process of figuring out who I liked working with, what I liked doing, and slow, very slow as just a nose and many other people… I learned everything.


So Google ads, Facebook ads, website development, and I done it all for my clients, but over the last year and a half, we cut out everything, all we do now is Google ads, Facebook ads, and leverage the power of our call center to qualify and book appointments of our clients, so that’s really where we focus on, and then Justin and I merged, it started last August when we established a friendship through a mastermind, and we developed what is now commercially a white label call center, and then from there we… It’s like our two agencies together, and now we’re just conversion like that’s what we’re at.


Awesome, and so Justin, where did you start? I know you guys now are together, like you said, last August, and I don’t know if there was through rabbis original group or one of the other Masterminds, you guys came together, but… Just in what your background.


Yeah, so I… On still do, we’ve merged out, but one bull box, more marketing. So the reason why is caught bulbs, ’cause I used to royalties back in the day, through high school, through college, and a little bit of program stuff, and I kind of got into health care from the rodeo, we kinda getting hurt all the time.


So I got in a health care of my background in healthcare, I got in the Sports Medicine, I was an athletic trainer, that was my undergrad, and then i to… I knew I wanted to go continue my education, work on my Master’s degree, and I thought it was either physical therapy or physician’s assistant or something like that, but then I started to look at marketing and administration, and I saw a higher selling in that direction, so I went, got my Master’s a healthcare administration with a little minor and marketing, and then I had a pretty good sales job with the company, a large orthopedic company in Florida, and I had a lot of time on my hands to be able to do other things, and after I finished the master’s program is essentially like an MBA for the healthcare industry, and it kinda taught me how to run a business and create a business and then do the marketing for that business, so I was like… Kind of always intrigued me, I’ve always had that entrepreneur spirit and kind of bone deep down, so I started and learning with the marketing we were doing on an SEO with the healthcare company and stuff like that, and I’ll like, name, I could do this for other people, too, so I started doing SEO for a couple of people. I built some websites along with that, and I quickly realized that you could do a 3000 website build out, and that’s just like one-time payment, and then after it’s done, you get like maybe 65 a month to host the website, but that’s it… You’re not getting additional recurring or ever per month from your good client, and I was like, Yeah, and then I started doing SEO a little bit, and that’s like the additional money coming in each and every single month, and then what I figured out was that clients don’t want you to promise that they’re gonna be on the top page of Google in six months to a year, and they just don’t have the patients for that, and they essentially want their phone to ring you get new clients like within 30 days.


So I started playing around, I started doing some research and started playing around like Facebook ads, and this is like when Facebook ads started getting really big, and it started messing around with that, and then I quickly got a couple of clients just all from my local network, and then quickly started to figure out, This is how… This is how you grow a marketing company, you try to get that recurring monthly revenue, and the best way to do that, that I saw through my experience that I have was through Facebook advertising and the lead generation apart, right?


Because if someone pays me a pound of dollars in 30 days, they potentially wanna see a return on that investment, and if they see a positive return on our investment, they’re gonna continue to pay me, we can help scale that up.


So that’s kind of like where my transition on my growth into my marketing agency, I gotten to a couple of programs, Jeff Millers, inner circle, and then scaling LOD systems in really a focus more down into the The generation part, and then on that SAT that… And I… We were some TAs to do with Rees program rebala, and we were getting all of our clients, we had the prospect be down, but we… Whatever reason, there were some clients that followed up with all the leads and really well, we stuck with those clients for about six months to year, they’d stayed with us, but then there were a couple of clients that are handful, I would say majority of our clients that we would sign on, would lead after a couple of months because they wouldn’t follow up with the least permanent… Right, and if they wanna follow up with the lead properly, they weren’t seeing the business that they wanted to see, that return on that investment that they wanted for that marking commandin.


They would leave after about two or three months, the act and I, we were talking and we’re like, You know what, it would be good if we just follow it up with a… It’s for our clients, and so we partner together, create what’s now conversion Ally, is a call center qualification team, people, all… Essentially, what we do is we call the leads, you’re supposed to… Within five minutes, make sure I call at least six times.


Once we get them on the phone, we qualify them, book an appointment, just like your clients are supposed to do.


Right, and then so we created that for our own agencies and then that became so successful a bit, now we’re white label, get four other agencies, and then now we are… We work so well together, and I’m really good at the front end in the marketing aspect, getting the clients and not so good at the retention part in sex, just like a system’s wizard and attention to detail, and he’s like the man to my gang, he’s a strength where I kind of like the weakness, I hate a… That’s why we urge.


He’s a frequent as in the back end.


Oh, that makes honey, and that’s interesting to bring that up because you look at a lot of business owners, and I see where they fall apart, most of the time, most businesses died you to lack of revenue. Right.


It’s not deliverability, it’s not that you don’t have a good product, it’s not our sales, right?


There’s not enough revenue coming in the door, the expenses pile up, and you just can’t match those two things together a… So with lead generation being a core part of your guys business, what are some of the things that you think are critical to make sure that a business who’s doing lead generation actually converts to to revenue, what is the most important piece to process and there on… You had a… In my mind, it’s really the qualification process, because generating a lead, whether it’s getting rid of the mentality of qualified versus unqualified, crappy versus good, so every lead is crappy, unless you qualify them appropriately, because you could get a hot lead that as 25000 are ready to invest in this next generation laser lodge, laser Liston service, they know they want, they need it, but if you don’t qualify them and sell them, that’s a copy lead, anything that falls in the wayside, so I think the qualification process is 10%… The most important part of that entire transition, because generating lead is not that difficult if you have good systems, you have the appropriate marketing components in place, you can generate a lead and just about any channel, whether it’s Google, YouTube, Facebook, Snapchat, organic email line, etcetera.


We do generate leads anywhere, how are you then gonna take that lead into a sales qualified lead that’s ready to be pitched and ready to move on to your sales process?


Yeah, and that’s interesting you bring that up because a lot of businesses, to your point, we’ll say it’s a good leader badly based on they picked up the phone and they attended the call or whatever it is, it’s like a well… The guy didn’t show up, so he’s a badly… What if the guy has got 10 million, he’s ready to go, we just missed the call. Does that make him a badly… Probably not. There’s some other factors that go into it.


So in your guys mind, let’s say you guys do the lead generation strategy for customer and they’re looking for 50 leads in a month or 100, whatever their number is, how do you help push those people down the pipeline so that they can get more qualified, they can have more stimulated interest and ultimately convert to the phone call, a Roman area of sales call, what are the steps that you guys go through that you recommend… Do you wanna say that US… Yeah, I’ll take it. Just a grow… Our process that we don’t really see where it’s really, really well is whenever you generate the lead, it should go to a qualification center, qualification person, just to make sure that that lead is qualified, but first and foremost in the ad copy and if you’re sending to the landing page and the form that they’re filling out, all of that stuff should be kind of making sure that you’re speaking to the right person with your targeting, whatever the ad images, whatever your copy is. The questions that you ask… Some questions that we ask is like, Hey, are you a business owner? What is your business name? Do you… Whatever are you doing for a week, how many would you like to be doing for a week, and then do you have money to invest into a program or a system, and if we were able to solve that pain point for you, if they’ve answered all of those questions, positively, then they’re pretty much qualified, right, so you… You send them through the ad, which is qualifying them, generating interest, and then you send them to the qualification step or someone actually does the qualifying, ask those specific questions, and then you send them to a demonstration or a demo of your actual product or service, and before you even start… Just say, Hey, I just want to make sure that we’re both on the same page. For example, like our marketing agency, this is a marketing agency, specifically design for your business, we’re gonna help you achieve X, Y and Z, if we can do… Assuming that we can do that for you successfully, do you have money to invest into a program like that?


They say, Yes, okay, perfect, let’s go ahead and move forward with the 30-minute conversation of a co… Yeah, no, and that makes a lot of sense on the qualification side, what about the balance, maybe Zaccaria, what about the balance between quality of leads and the quantity of leads, ’cause this is something in our agency and our consulting practice, kind of what happens… I personally would… I like to take more conversations on the front end and kinda go through that qualification process on the phone and have a higher Boeing of leads up front and then filter them out, whereas other people would rather take five phone calls a week, but they gotta be the most qualified people on the planet, so how do you balance quality… Well, especially when you’re getting started, or say you have an empty calendar and you’ve gotten a ton to do, it’s quantity, the objective is to get on the phone with as many people as possible, and then once you’ve achieved that objective, then it’s implementing friction to make sure you’re spending that time with the right people on the phone, so it’s adding in additional components, additional hoops that lead has to jump through to make it to that back end, so it realistically, it comes with the balance of having a full calendar where you can make as many pitches as possible, but also implementing it in a way that you’re making that pitch is somebody who can purchase from… Got it. So it’s really a quantity than quality is really to the staff in it.


Right, I would always…


I would always try to fill your calendar as quickly as possible with as many people as possible, and then if you start booking out, and I’m talking about 90, A M to 60 P M every 30 minutes, if that’s… It may take you an hour to get your service, if not know how you are, but if you’re booked out past like three days or four days, then start adding in friction, start adding in more layers of extra questions that qualification stuff. All those good things.


Yeah, and that’s interesting too, because the way that you’re talking about two different strategies, one is the inbound strategy, I placed that or I play some sales come something interprets it and comes back to you, and that’s really inbound when you’re placing at… But then there’s the opposite. acetate a few conversations about this. Is that outbound strategy, like the link in the email, the text, the voice mail, those outbound strategies, where do you guys see more success from UC inbound or outbound or the balance the one of your guys stocks on a prospect, it ultimately… It goes to the same thing is your investment portfolio, you don’t get put all of your investments into one one stock and hope that you’re gonna ride that to retirement diversifying. So I will say this to be clear, is ads always produced the highest quantity for us and the fastest as outcome, what… We also have the different channels, cold email, I tended Facebook messaging, Facebook posts, Instagram messaging, intern post, us doing podcasts like this with you, doing interviews in other groups, that way you have multiple channels because just like… Ruby talks about this all the time.


He was shut down from being able to run ads for like four months, and if he didn’t have organic systems, his business would have died, so having all those different components where you’re able to pull in sources of leads, I think the marketing programs… And I tell the start clients all the time, marketing programs that are hoping or wishing that prayer and hoping on one channel being and I’ll be offer them, are gonna be the quickest way to failure.


Yeah, and that’s very true. I think you look at the options that people have right now, there’s so many different platforms you can potentially mark on both inbound and outbound, and the people who… There’s this content of hyper-pitching and some of the people listen to might not know a lot about it in the marketing space, but there’s a balance to been going super deep and one vertical, and then also having a diversification of services, you could be the best at one thing, but if there’s only a couple of thousand of your customers on the planet, that makes it very difficult, you can’t possibly have 100% market share, but at the same time, if you do 1000 different industries, it’s also very hard to get the result you’re looking for… And the systems don’t really line up very well either, so what is your guys thought… Do you guys it down into something particular, you obviously have a couple of service offerings with conversion on the ISA center, but also on the lead gen side, what are you guys focusing on mostly or where you guys specialize, do you wanna… Or why we… Yeah, yeah, I think most of what we do, about 80% of our… I’m an energy and effort is nice down the specific service or a specific product that we know that we can deliver it, and then we’ve had seen proven results with, and then the rest 20% is just like experimenting, trying to break into new niche and trying to figure out other opportunities out there, right.


It’s July 2020 right now, we just got… I think we’re still in the middle of Cove, on the back end of Cove. But imagine if you are a marketing company that just focused… I had nothing but a portfolio of restaurant clients in March of 2020, your revenue is essentially brought down to zero, so if you didn’t diversify your portfolio per se a little bit, then that you’re essentially leaving money on the table, right? So if you have, say, 10 chiropractors and 50 restaurant clients and you potentially could have a little bit more income coming, so we try to do 80%, and then 20 is just… I’m trying to figure out new avenues.


Yeah, and where do you guys see things going in the future, there’s… Everybody’s really kind of built up on LinkedIn, Instagram and Facebook, and they’re all different platforms, but they’re really starting to get people there, everybody’s using these platforms every day, they’re mega platforms and they’re super successful. Do you see a whole new platform coming out, do you see a repurposing of the existing platforms, where do you see people going in the future for their Martinson?


It might have been gotta Cantatas with this perspective, but you’re already seeing that like tick talks becoming big, and it’s really just gonna depend on where your customers hang out, because that’s something that could change with everything going on with Cob and the volatility that’s going out in the market and how people are engaging with one another, where are they hanging out? Where are they spending their time? And those, that should be where you direct your motives or your channels, he and which one you’re going after a… Just in an on our song B2B, we’re not gonna go to a Food Truck festival expecting to close a bunch of people, right. We would go to a business degree, so it’s gonna be focusing on where your clients hang out, in my opinion, and I think as we evolve as a society, as an industry, they’re just definitely gonna be new things that come around… Look at the perspective of a 2000 versus 2020, Facebook and Google didn’t exist back then. So the internet really wasn’t what it was, and now you have different technologies evolving every day, so I honestly couldn’t tell you… That was a lot about what I think.


I have no clue what’s happening in the next 20 years, the… The in, I think it’s easy, it’s easy to know where you should put your attention that it’s just wherever I sacked, wherever your audience is.


It may be Facebook, it may be Instagram, and maybe total. I don’t know if my space play come back in to notes, so it just depends on wherever your audience is, what I’ve come to figure out in the past, like I put really scaling up our agency and having two businesses and spending a lot of money on ads, it really comes down to where people’s attention are, where you just find out where the tension set and just do a good strategy that makes sense for you to speak to your ideal clientele and that’s where you should be… What the name of the software or the platform is? Is it relevant?


You just really just try to figure out where all the attention at… Yeah, and that probably changes over time, do it… You see Dr guys in 10, 50 years ago, B2B or just business people in general. It was conferences or you would pick up Yellow Pages, right?


Or maybe Google at some point. They’d have a listing there.


Now it’s like you got a whole platform and plant in that’s a Tolstoy business, right?


And you have other opportunities, right, like these conference in the… There’s industries that have conferences every day, every week, every month now, so there’s these different kind of areas you can go… What do you guys think is the most important for some of these businesses right now, they’re in code, coming out of code, but I guess… And they’re struggling, they know revenue is important to have a little bit of money to spend, and they’re trying to get that revenue back up to where it was, How can they engage with someone like new guys to be able to be successful here? What are some tangential, first and foremost would be to get your offer in your brand positioning down without doubt, without a fraction of a doubt. Exactly what it is that you sell. When I was doing nothing but chiropractic marketing, it was, I hope chiropractors book 50 appointments per month guarantee, there’s no mistaking that statement, right.


So I think that’s first and foremost, that’s the priority, then from there is establishing the understanding of where your market is, do the market research, like Justin said, and then find and identify how you can communicate to them if your markets on Facebook… Facebook ads is a great tool that you can leverage and start building awareness and engagement around your brand and then re-targeting or the lead generation component to engage discussions. Those would be my major tips or somebody’s through code right now, doesn’t… Yeah, I think my tips going through car in is you have to go back to the fundamentals of business, I like to look at our business or any business I’m a part of in three different nights, it’s like phases, one is the prospecting phase or the marketing phase, two is a sales phase actually closing a deal, and three is the fulfilment base, you can have each and every single one of those passes on point in being sure that it’s locked out tight. Then you should have no problem, the fulfillment pace, make sure you have a really, really good offer and you’re delivering an awesome product or service, the sales phase is making sure whenever you get the leads, the generating whatever you go, actually, you have someone who’s confident, knows the product or server is, knows how to address the pain points, handle objections and be able to close that cell and then down to the prospect, and you have to have good marketing, be able to feed the funnel to be the entire business.


Right, so I think I businesses need to focus in on make it… Do deep down into the… We just take a step back and look at it as a overall picture and just make sure that each and every single one of those phases or airtight, and that goes, If we’re incubator, not income, if we go to another… And ice, ’cause if you have a good product or service that people like, you just needed to let people know about it, you knew sell it correctly, and you need to fulfill on that promise of that product service.


Yeah, and so for you guys, first of all, who’s your ultimate target of are you serving right now, and then how should those people reach out to you guys through a website, if they’re some other spot of social handle, how should people actually reach out to your fans?


Doesn’t, I’ll take it.


Conversion to IO primarily. So there’s… Our Fly Wheel is a component of three different aspects, so we have the marketing agency where we’ll generate the leads for the business, we have the call center component, which will nurture, qualified book the leads for your business, and and then we have the training component that makes up our fly will actually build a call center for you.


The easiest way to get in touch with Justin and myself is through social media, I’m luck leszek everywhere, just in… I think it’s jail will be pretty much everywhere.


Or our website, conversion to IO con version. I totally just blanked on selling that by conversion LIO, and then fill out a form there, they can put a time with Justin through that or our Facebook page, commercially a… Sure, yeah. No, that’s awesome in… I like to always kind of wrap things up, like who is it that you guys are looking for, what is the ultimate… You guys have three or four different pieces to your business that you kind of were serving, who’s the ideal customer for the people end up listening to this, if you are this person, call you to who… Who is that person for you guys, you are a chiropractor or an agency that fulfills for chiropractors for their marketing and lead generation. That’s who we wanna talk to.


I would be willing to back without a shadow of doubt, you put my injustice company up against any other marketing agency serving chiropractors and we will blow them out of the water night day as some of… Yeah, I think it’s huge that you guys have such a niche service in a very focused kind of position, and I don’t even know if you guys know on this call like I am a carbine, I went to school, I’m a chiropractor, I spent a few too many years doing that and a lot of dollars doing that, right. So I, I don’t practice anymore, and I think a lot of men to listen the shogo, that makes no sense. And it’s like lesson, I’m trying to serve people at a bigger level than just treating patients all day, it is what it is, but I think chiropractors are one of the best practitioners for pretty much anybody in the world, and then there’s a portion of them that just suck in business, they just cannot do the business lead generation side of it, the really good technicians, really good clinicians, but they can’t generate the leads, so at the end of the day, it’s one of those things like how can you have agencies actually support what you’re doing and then on the other side, conversion ally, that’s a huge… That’s really a big benefit because conversion is everything, right? And that fall gets drawn typically because a business owner, Ben, at the time, in that I don’t think it’s important, it’s that don’t have the time to do that. If I’m treating 30 patients in the office and you want me to run back and call someone in welcome for an appointment and bring them, it just too many things are going on in the practice to make it successful, so that on the day, I think it’s absolutely critical that you guys have a follow-up system like that, so I appreciate you guys coming on the show and talking a little bit about what you’re doing, you’re looking for marketing services or really… I think that, like I said, the US for you guys is conversion ally, that’s a huge piece that a lot of people are missing in their business, so check that out. Conversion-ly dot com. I think that’s conversion. Oh, I dot com as a would say. Yeah, I got it. Is the incantation.


That’s right, so check amount, see how they can help you scale out of your agency or your business, and I really appreciate you guys called show, thank you so much.


That was a budget. Thank you for having us.


Thanks for having a cone.

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