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Welcome back to The prospecting show. This is the third episode today on July 5, Wednesday, 2020 here, we’re just rolling out of COBIT, seems like oats kinda coming back up and got a little bit crazy, so… Everyone’s still on the edge of their seat. We have Dustin win on the call today. How are you?

 

Good, good, thanks for having me on. I… Yeah, absolutely. So for the people who don’t necessarily know about what you do, I know you talk a lot about intellectual property law and some of these patents and trademarks in the small business world, the customers that I serve, and probably the customers you serve to…

 

This is a huge area of interest, and how do you take an idea and actually make sure that’s protected. So before we get into that, I’m in trust in here, in your back, or where you come from, how did you get to where you are today? And maybe talk a little bit about that sport background that you’ve talked about, partial… Sure, sure. I guess where I usually start the story is when I was 18 and went to college, I didn’t really know what I wanted to do, I just played on… Play in football or basketball forever, so I… And eventually that that runs out on you, so what… I became a Bio, you made your… And I enjoyed that, I like science, but it was just a major… Right, and I graduated, graduated and still didn’t really know what I wanted to do, thought maybe about being a dentist for a little while, that was a real bad idea, on my bio friends went to med school. I didn’t have any interest in that. I started taking all the grad school interest exams and finally ended up in the law school and business school, get… Pursue my JD and MBA. And even then, I still was a little different than most attorneys, I did have the science background, I loved to internship job in transfer at Western University, basically commercialized the election property of the university sub, that it turned me eventually into an intellectual property attorney and work with a lot of small businesses and entrepreneurs, I never let the sports part of it go, I tell people…

 

No, Western enea is a small…

 

I have a rural state, I tell people, I definitely make doing things the westmeath no one else does, or hardly anyone else does, became registered as an LA contract advisors and L agent, and a women’s basketball as it with the WNBA. So I always found a way, whether it was coaching a play in fight football, I want a small fight football business, I’ve always kept the sports in it as well, so I’m over here in the mountains of Lester gen yet using my technology to do intellectual property, sports and entertainment as much as I can, I guess.

 

Yeah, and so for the people who may be part of intellectual property and dabble in that, maybe elaborate a little bit on why a business would care about that and then what steps actually go into protecting someone’s intellectual property?

 

Sure, I get… The first step is always identification, what do you have? So when I was in tech transfer, we had to had a, a three-prong mission there, identify protect and commercialize, so you gotta figure out what intellectual property or IP that… How do you protect it? And how do you commercialize it? So sounds real simple, but those are three steps that can take a lifetime sometimes, but I guess the way I try to approach it with startups and cranes is just kinda educating them on the different type… Electra property, right. You have trademarks, copyrights, trade secrets, those are kind of the big… Or you have other things like rights, publicity, and just general know-how that’s probably as close to trade secret as anything, trade dress. Some of that stuff comes down. But I always talk about it, you’ve gotta do your own business on it, what type of electoral property is this, your business have not… Everybody has a patent on it, not everybody has a copyright, but most everybody does because everybody has a website nowadays, almost everyone… I haven’t found a business yet that I can’t come up with a trademark for it, because we’re all… Every business has it’s on brand, whether it’s heavy, heavy in the marketing or not, everybody has a trademark, so you gotta figure out why you have and then figure out how to protect it, which is gonna affect the budget, obviously.

 

So there’s a business skill there as what you protect when… And then the beauty of it is that you’re creating assets for your business if you ever wanna sell the business or take your claim to a certain market or position, or product or service or whatever it is, that’s what your intellectual property can do, give you the right to exclude others.

 

And so if you do things the right way and get through the registration process, I… So identify, protect, commercialized, I guess that’s the mantra that’s always stuck with me.

 

Yeah, and that’s actually a good point ’cause it comes… I come from the background of healthcare, being a chiropractor, a position myself, everything comes down to that diagnostic important at the beginning, you can know what to do until you know what the problem is or what you’re trying to achieve, and that is kind of the same thing with the IP, right, you gotta know what eco or what to protect and what you have before you can actually do anything to it.

 

Right, and it’s one of those things that gets forgotten often in the start-up budget until an investor comes along and ask about your intellectual property position, then we end up doing too much rambling sometimes, but I tell people to make it part of their start-up budget just like insurance or just like Whatever licenses you need, given whatever industry you’re in, it’s always a good idea to have intellectual property budget to when you can, at the point you can to keep creating assets for that business. Yeah, no, and I think it’s critical too, because to your point, people are sometimes short-sided, they look right now, they’re like, Oh, I don’t need it, or I don’t… It’s like insurance in the sense of when you need it and don’t have it… It’s a very bad day. Right. So the arts, when they… When you lose a investment or a deal because of it, for sure.

 

Absolutely, and that’s why I think it comes down to realizing the piece of the business that are valuable and the other pieces that are just like, Hey, well, this is important that much or whatever it is, in that way, you can focus representing the thing that that matter and I think in your space, because you have so much experience on this, I’d be interested to hear a little bit more about the kinds of businesses… You talk about startups, so they usually tech start-up to the product company service companies, like walk me through what the ideal client is for you guys.

 

The first part of my career, I was working in the university setting where West regaining university, I was in the PAT attorney and the office technology transfer in Iran, a business Tecate program there for a while.

 

So that was really fun because we… Tensei University is pretty diverse. Everybody who was an employee had some obligation to disclose the intellectual property they created in the scope of their job, so that’s one of the fun things about being an election Prouty attorney… Definitely a patent attorney or trademark attorney, ’cause you never know what’s coming through the door, it could be literally any kind of business, and then when it gets in the patents, that’s heavy drafting and there’s things…

 

I have a biology background, I’m not an engineer, for example, so I have team and partners that are way better at certain types of patents than I am, but it’s pretty excited to be an election property attorney because in theory, it’s something new and useful that’s never been out there before and people are trying to protect something unique, so I always tell people I’m not that creative out of… I think of any of the school stuff, do it bad, but my skills in coming up with the strategy to protect it, so you never know what it’s gonna be, I guess, personally and not… I like to help… Yeah, I’m a builder, I like to help people build their business, I like to help people come up with the strategy and taking from literally the articles of incorporation or the articles of organization, and the very first day mark and try to help people build business. I could care less if I ever saw the inside of a courtroom again, ’cause I don’t have that much interest in a law, family law, or any of those things I like to do business in to do business transactions on putting together licenses of the electoral property. Every business when they start up, need some kind of operating agreement, even if it’s only a single member else, it’s still possible to define your business and how you make decisions, and even if the ownership is 100% you right now and may always be that way. You’re gonna say how that ownership exist and can be transferred or not transferred and all those kind of things, so I like that or… My favorite client is someone who comes in as just launching a new business and wants to protect their electoral property and kinda set things up the right way at stuff, ’cause a lot of those don’t have the capital to afford attorneys or legal services, or the Electra property sometimes, but that’s part of it too. What can you do at a management will cost to set them up to get funding or to get the cells they need to do a little bit more.

 

Yeah. And that’s a balance. I think the nice thing about what you’re doing is that you have value regardless if they transact, if they regards to… If you actually do work with them or not, that just having you in their pocket, it’s super useful because when they do become big enough and do have a bunch of they can come back and actually use your services. Right, right, right. I’ll invest in people just like people invest in people when they invest in business… Right, all invest in the right cut, allies, my time, in the right kind of client to give them a chance to do more.

 

It’s hard ’cause you can’t give everybody the time you want, but those are the kind of people that will get my time, I guess… Yeah, no, I… And I totally understand what you’re coming from, there’s a certain limit of time and effort and resources, and then just mental capacity that you have day-to-day, especially with everything going on in the world right now, it seems like everyone’s starting to get very selective, but who to talk to when they talk them and all of that, because the world’s just kind of a different place, so in your mind, as business to start to scale off and they have these intact property pieces that they’re trying to protect, what are the first kind of walk us through a few of the steps associated with that, so they come to you and they say, Okay, we have this trademark for this product or whatever, and we want to… But a trademark on it. We wanna put a patent on it. Then typically, what is the process kind of at a high level. So that we can understand that.

 

Yeah, I mean, keeping in mind that I’m talking exclusively about the United States system, wanna say this, different countries have different IP laws and regulations and governing bodies and systems and all that, many of them are similar. They’re handful of treaties that allow you to do a lot globally, but at least when it comes to patents, trade marks are pretty straightforward, it’s a logo or a slogan, or just a word… Combination of words.

 

Ian, you really know, if you’re writing a hating application on a…

 

I tell my counts like, This is what we’ve got to do, we’ve gotta write a 10-20 page term paper about something that’s never been written about before, that’s not an easy passing sometimes, so we have tools to try to draw out what we need from our clots we have disclosed our forms, employers or universities are gonna use disposes use a requirement of you documenting or reporting what you invent because they often fill or they’re often… My policy do have a claim to it, but we use them as attorneys to hear what you think, you have to hear it in your words. And I guess it’s our job to take your articulation of your invention or intellectual property and help you come up with a strategy on how to protect it, so we use disclosure forms and mention disclosure form, trademark discolor forms. We’ll take that from you and then if it’s enough, we’ll be able to draft the patent application or trade marks, there are different classifications for trademarks, so you have to come up with the goods and services that your trademark represents.

 

I know, we’ve gotta know… We’ve got to understand your business when it comes to trade marks, and we’ve gotta understand even if you don’t have the prototype done, even if you don’t have funds, whatever, it’s kinda cookbook style, we’ve gotta be able to put in a patent application how we make this in what utility it has, even if we don’t actually have it made in, you sit… So you got a… There’s a back and forth there with the client, I mean for…

 

I’ve been doing it for 16 years now, so almost always trying to figure out more ways to be efficient with that exchange of information. Some people are great at ho on yesterday. That was awesome.

 

But a lot of times I have people that don’t wanna fill out a form at all and those came up, so even if it’s electronic or whatever, but… So we… We have to gather the info we need, however we can, after that, you’re on to hopefully filling something, patents and trademarks are both to… With the United States at the trademark office, you were at the mercy of whatever patent or trademark examiner gets the son to your case, you’re filing an application and there’s no guarantee it’s ever gonna issue or become a registered patent or your issue… Patten, a registered trademark. But that’s the goal, right? And you can have a back and forth with those, those agencies copyrights or the Library of Congress, it… So it’s a little different process, copyrights and trademarks are pretty inexpensive compared to patents in a one-on-one or a test, there’s a lot of administrative process there, you gotta have some foresight… It takes some time. I will say the Peterman office and the core office have gotten much better over the course of my career at the interface and the online capability, just like anything else, it’s subject to some recs every now and then, but I… That I could talk all day, but you have to draw the IPO out and come up with the strategy and come up with the funding to file your applications, and then the goal is to get an issued Bator and issue trade market, your copyright trade or those kind of things.

 

That was very un-trusting. And so for the small business owners that people maybe been around five, 10 years there, the small business or maybe even the startups that are gonna become presets, Seed Series A through C and are building up these businesses and realize, Hey, we actually have an idea here, people are actually paying for it. We have, and now it’s kind of get serious about copyright, patent, trademark, all the different pieces, what is the best way for them to reach you to get either a consultation or start that process? What’s the number one way to get out to you?

 

I’ve practiced in a lot of different avenues. We… Venues, there are a couple of us, I have a partner of Robert acres, and we found that our own election property from acre win. Rob does a lot of other things, but he works primarily for the legislature of these days, but we are two with a few attorneys of Western… So we have a firm, maker square dot com, we’re also, in more recent times, have been working with the firm out of least Mr. Virginia Dunlap, Bennie do all the West Virginia stuff. But there, I’m working, I’ve had my own sports agency and worked with a couple of other agents there through while dog management is the name of that, my agency that I started in 2008.So I, I’m working with new legacy sports now, so you can find me all over the place. Anchors when Don at in it, a lot we… The agency stuff is Well do pro or while dog management and new legacy sports, so at… We like to work with athletes because athletes are literally brands themselves now, we’ve been doing a lot Ashlee trademarks and things lately, I was… It’s fun when all those things marched together, but I’m all over the place, Dustin, you should be able to both… They can call you, right? So I need to get better at using the scheduling tools and things like you do, I’ve been listening to your show too, so… Yeah, no, I’m learning from the prospect, you show how to be more efficient… Right, and there we go. That’s what it’s all about, right? At scale, and you gotta eliminate everything that doesn’t matter, that prioritize what does and then decide can automate or delicate… That’s ADAD eliminate prioritize, automated delegate, the four things we live by in the business, but I wanna thank you, I know we could keep these episodes pretty short… I… Onita, you’re kind of diving deep into, this is a really specific area, probably one of the most specific episodes that I’ve had so far in terms of going very narrow in deep in the one subject, but I think this is absolutely critical because a lot of the people that were working with a lot of people listen to the show, actually. Our entrepreneurs, small business owners, starting to grow and then are transitioning into things like preceded Series A house, all those different pieces, and I think it’s very interesting that we’ve had this conversation because most of those customers give this top right? Mostly not because they don’t think it’s important ’cause they just don’t know about it, or they just don’t know how to do it, or who approach it, or they’re two distant. The goal is to target into a strength and not a lot, a landmine, if you can go to your customers or your investors or wherever you need to go to take the next step and answer any questions about intellectual property and the affirmative… Oh, I’ve got that. Or We’re patenting or what… We registered this trade mark or that trademark, it goes from being a weakness to a strength out of of your… You’re ending your business so that… We’re just trying to power everybody up, so to speak… Yeah, no, absolutely, so I appreciate you coming on the show here that… For the people who are listening to this, whatever platform you’re listening on, we really appreciate the support, reach out to… So any time you get a chance, there’s a bunch of different things he’s doing as you kinda broke it down, but intellectual property, trademarks, patents and copyright and all those different pieces that are there. Thank you so much for spending time on your day and explaining exactly what you guys do and how you can help different types of customers.

 

So a iPad, thank you for everything that you do on the show is… Not appreciate. It’s always fun for me. Appreciate is seen in a few minutes with you.

 

Absolutely the IEEE.

 

I too.

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